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Terran Database A collection of helpful Terran strategies! |
1. Terran DataBase Part1
2. Terran DataBase Part2
3. Terran Database Part3
Terran DataBase Part1
Author: StarcrafterKid
For money maps: No
Difficulty: Easy
Comments: 61 (Watch for comments!, Add to favorites)
Views: 5699
First of all, I'd like to say that all my other Terran strategies were complete failures. After that ordeal, I began to play much, much more and gained some experience and some knowledge. I plan to lay out all my info in a number of strats and hope for some good constructive criticism to improve myself and hopefully others, too. Also, this strategy is for noobs and not for gosu people. Even if you are pro, feel free to read this strategy.
Now, I'd like to lay down some of the Terran basics:
-Don't put one SCV on to every mineral patch. Make as many SCVs as you can throughout the game and fill up your field. If you get an expansion, you can always select a bunch of SCVs and make them mine, no sweat.
-Your Rifinery should have a number of SCVs depending on what you're getting. I think 3 SCVs at the Rifinery is the minimum, and 4 is the maximum if you're getting high gas cost units (Tanks, Vessels). If you're planning on going M&Ms or a quick Vulture rush, don't go too overboard on gas.
-Don't get one unit-producing building, get several!!! I happen to see that this is a noob mistake (But that's just me). If you're planning to go Metal (Tanks, Vultures, Goliaths) get at least 4 Factories and get one or two for every expansion you have.
-Watch your supply, always get enough Depots. You never want to see "Not enough Supply" on your screen.
-Always expand.
Basic Strategy:
Terran vs Zerg = M&Ms and maybe some Tanks later
Terran vs Protoss = Fast Metal, especially Vultures and Mines
Terran vs Terran = Varies depending on your enemy (I prefer Wraiths)
TvZ-
You must make at least two barracks at the beginning of the game and quickly tech up to Medics and then Tanks. The point of a M&M strategy is to attack quickly. Against Zerg, it's best to expand when the enemy expands. If Zerg makes an early expansion, most likely, they will have a small army and stim-paked Marines with Medics will be able to deal with Zerglings and Hydralisks. Upgrading armour is very important so Sunkens won't do 2 hit KOs on the Marines (Even if you have Medics, it won't really help). Lurkers are also a terrifying problem. If the rush Lurks up to your M&Ms, I suggest either to run away, micro (select all Marines and attack one Lurker, this only works if they have a small amount of Lurkers).
(I'm not that good at 'Fast Metal' and could use some help.)
Now, I have to conclude my strategy because I have to go to sleep now, but I will add a part two (TvP and TvT as well as other stuff)if this strategy is a success. Please, I would like some constructive criticism.
Now, I'd like to lay down some of the Terran basics:
-Don't put one SCV on to every mineral patch. Make as many SCVs as you can throughout the game and fill up your field. If you get an expansion, you can always select a bunch of SCVs and make them mine, no sweat.
-Your Rifinery should have a number of SCVs depending on what you're getting. I think 3 SCVs at the Rifinery is the minimum, and 4 is the maximum if you're getting high gas cost units (Tanks, Vessels). If you're planning on going M&Ms or a quick Vulture rush, don't go too overboard on gas.
-Don't get one unit-producing building, get several!!! I happen to see that this is a noob mistake (But that's just me). If you're planning to go Metal (Tanks, Vultures, Goliaths) get at least 4 Factories and get one or two for every expansion you have.
-Watch your supply, always get enough Depots. You never want to see "Not enough Supply" on your screen.
-Always expand.
Basic Strategy:
Terran vs Zerg = M&Ms and maybe some Tanks later
Terran vs Protoss = Fast Metal, especially Vultures and Mines
Terran vs Terran = Varies depending on your enemy (I prefer Wraiths)
TvZ-
You must make at least two barracks at the beginning of the game and quickly tech up to Medics and then Tanks. The point of a M&M strategy is to attack quickly. Against Zerg, it's best to expand when the enemy expands. If Zerg makes an early expansion, most likely, they will have a small army and stim-paked Marines with Medics will be able to deal with Zerglings and Hydralisks. Upgrading armour is very important so Sunkens won't do 2 hit KOs on the Marines (Even if you have Medics, it won't really help). Lurkers are also a terrifying problem. If the rush Lurks up to your M&Ms, I suggest either to run away, micro (select all Marines and attack one Lurker, this only works if they have a small amount of Lurkers).
(I'm not that good at 'Fast Metal' and could use some help.)
Now, I have to conclude my strategy because I have to go to sleep now, but I will add a part two (TvP and TvT as well as other stuff)if this strategy is a success. Please, I would like some constructive criticism.
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Out of 12 voters, most think this strategy is Good!
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Other Submissions: |
| 1, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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You asked for it... The first ... 2/3's of this strategy are common sense, nobody puts only 1 scv on a mineral patch, even noobs, so the first 2/3'rds of this is quite useless. The basic strategies are NOT set, and in fact the zerg is flawed. MnM is NOT good against zerg by themselves, or even with tanks. Lurks>rines, when they see you're going nothing but mnm and tanks, they'll tech to lurks (they're prob. there already) and wipe out your entire army in a matter of seconds. Now for the last 1/3 of your strategy. Point is, it just doesn't make sense. presuming you scout, and find that they're expanding, you say to expand too? Then how do you attack? It's always a trade-off, if they expand, you can either expand or attack, one or the other, not both of them. If you attempt attacking and expanding, they'll defend from your smaller army, then they'll counter and rape your expo. And yes, lurks pwn you, but you cant micro with a large amount of rines, micro means micromanagement, which means you use a small amount of units wisely to kill something with minimal losses, selecting a mob of marines and targeting a lurk will get them all killed... I would vote Pretty Bad, but you put quite a bit of thought into this, so: -Below Average- -AtomicKitten |
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| 2, TitanWing | |||||||
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We don't make strategies to ask for help. We go to WBs and ask for help in the Tactical Chamber. Thank you. | ||||||
| 3, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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"MnM is NOT good against zerg by themselves, or even with tanks. Lurks>rines, when they see you're going nothing but mnm and tanks, they'll tech to lurks (they're prob. there already) and wipe out your entire army in a matter of seconds" No they dont. M&M + tank is most basic tvz unit combo and works perfectly on any level. "You must make at least two barracks at the beginning of the game and quickly tech up to Medics and then Tanks. The point of a M&M strategy is to attack quickly. Against Zerg, it's best to expand when the enemy expands. If Zerg makes an early expansion, most likely, they will have a small army and stim-paked Marines with Medics will be able to deal with Zerglings and Hydralisks. Upgrading armour is very important so Sunkens won't do 2 hit KOs on the Marines (Even if you have Medics, it won't really help). Lurkers are also a terrifying problem. If the rush Lurks up to your M&Ms, I suggest either to run away, micro (select all Marines and attack one Lurker, this only works if they have a small amount of Lurkers)." Almost everything said there is plain wrong sorry. |
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| 4, Larvichee | |||||||
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Why's this accepted if everything is just plain wrong? Favouritsm? | ||||||
| 5, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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Well, what would you suggest doing in a TvZ situation? | ||||||
| 6, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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Personally i go fast gas, 3 fbats and a rine in a bunker on my choke. Then drop a gol a fbat and a med about 1-2 matrices next to where their extractor should be. a few minutes of good micro later, i should've killed what zerglings they had, avoiding the sunks, i pick off stragglers on their mineral patch. While they're trying to get rid of my gol, i go for gols and tanks. Since i already have a starport, i send a SV for lurks. -AtomicKitten |
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| 7, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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"You asked for it... The first ... 2/3's of this strategy are common sense" which most of sc.org apparently dont have. "nobody puts only 1 scv on a mineral patch, even noobs" imo it was exaggeration. what he's trying to bring out, is that you gotta make alot of them. well over 2 or maybe even 3 per mineral patch, atleast for a while. "The basic strategies are NOT set" in fact they 90% of the time are. of course you can go stuff like fast wraith or fast vulture harass or something, but it almost always ends in m&m +tanks&vessels or vessels (though using only m&m + vessels is kind of micro intensive, not for noobs). Many who have played against me and used stuff like mass tanks and goliaths have been slaughtered. m&m + other key support units are simply the best combo availible for realistic games, most of the time that is. Why do progamers almost always go close to these key build orders? You seriously think they'd do it because it sucks? no, they do it because its generally the safest and most effective. "MnM is NOT good against zerg by themselves, or even with tanks" true that, they need a couple of science vessels too "Lurks>rines" and who doesn't know that? he said AND tanks, tanks have bigger range, and anhilate lurkers fast. you think anyone would be so stupid they'd just attack move lurkers with mass marines? rofl. now you're about to say "they have zerglings too!" eh? well of course I know that. and that is why you got marines. you'd be surprised how fast stimmed marines annhilate zerglings. "and wipe out your entire army in a matter of seconds." I'll play along. they got mass lurkers running at you, and even manage to get close without them all being killed, and now try to burrow and my army is dead! *gasp* ...and what army would be better then? tanks goliaths marines firebats? with that logic it gets wiped out all the same imo. but seriously though, you dont just sit there and watch him burrow. you use stimpacks, and run away... now his lurkers maybe got part of your army, but you got probably almost all support units or w/e (for example, zerglings) and also some lurkers. And what will the lurkers do now? come at you again without zerglings? ha. they'll be dead before they can even attack. "It's always a trade-off, if they expand, you can either expand or attack, one or the other, not both of them." um? please explain this to me again. why cant they do both? in fact, its very common style and progamers use this do, they attack and keep their opponent busy and meanwhile make a expansion as they've covered it. they mass a army while the other army is attacking, and they can use it for defense. if they sneak and hide for him to move out, they'd still keep some sort of defense, plus the other guy will be able to cause same stuff, or more, to you than you can do to him. "And yes, lurks pwn you, but you cant micro with a large amount of rines" oh I apologise. Didn't know you were a noob. ... you use GROUPS DUH! it takes a little bit of practise, but you can easily do this in 1-2 seconds, atleast I can: stim three groups of marines, all of them retreat, and medics retreat too, tanks also retreat and science vessels retreat too. woah? and again, you don't attack burrowed lurkers with marines. you attack them with tanks. if theํr army of lurks and lings are spread out and waiting for you, it would be stupid to run to their trap. you should scan a bit forward to know if there are units waiting for them, find a good position that doesn't favor the opponent, maybe siege mode tanks beforehand, and possibly irradiating many lurkers causing heavy casualities, if they dont have scourges. "micro means micromanagement, which means you use a small amount of units wisely to kill something with minimal losses" I don't get it. you defined this word yourself? no. The unit amounts dont have anything to do with it. you can micro with five groups of units, its just not so small scale of a micro, you know? "selecting a mob of marines and targeting a lurk will get them all killed" indeed, no need for me to go correcting this line if you've read my whole post eh? ###################other comments####################### "Why's this accepted if everything is just plain wrong? Favouritsm?" hardly. when I only had very little experience I would have thought like you do, too. However with 4000 1v1's at the bank I think different. I know that everything in this isn't right, but its closer than most of the strategies submitted, no offense to anyone. You know what most guys send? Well, this: Build 12 reavers, and oh, 6 shuttles. also make 10 carriers. they pwn. now attack and wipe everything out thats basically it in a nutshell. and that wasn't even for money maps. The thing is, it was accepted because the general idea is right. The basic units for each matchup are correct in general, and the basics are important as many people who post here seem to be lacking them. "Personally i go fast gas, 3 fbats and a rine in a bunker on my choke. Then drop a gol a fbat and a med about 1-2 matrices next to where their extractor should be. a few minutes of good micro later, i should've killed what zerglings they had, avoiding the sunks, i pick off stragglers on their mineral patch. While they're trying to get rid of my gol, i go for gols and tanks. Since i already have a starport, i send a SV for lurks." Okay, and now you say that the strategy sucked and its pretty bad and all? heh. like you can talk after a post like that. rine in a bunker in the choke... heh. yeah the general newbie defenses what inexperienced people make. overall, its pretty much wasted money, and that strategy isn't really so effective. I mean its hard to even give advice after the stuff you said generally just cannot work. Well maybe against newbies, but yeah. first off that attack and defense and all that is quite expensive, and it takes a while to make a drop like that. besides, the combo isnt so effective. I mean, goliath? come on. you spent 200 minerals and 100 gas extra on that, which would be much better replaced with two marines or something. cheaper, faster to make that attack, and they can be healed by medics. plus, after using stimpack they're even more deadly than goliaths. fast drop tactics aren't unheard of, but they never add a goliath in. I already explained the reason. Besides, that build order is very predictable. they should be scouting your base with occasional suicided zerglings, and if you only got 1 marine in a bunker it'll be long gone in your base seeing it all before you can react. besides, they should have a overlord nearby, and if its that suspicious they will suicide it. if they can decide the place and the time of suiciding a ovie, it wont cost them much. "a few minutes of good micro later, i should've killed what zerglings they had, avoiding the sunks" hah. "I should have", yeah. right. only 1 well placed sunken colony between their hatchery and minerals will give very good general defense. And as long as they dont press the panic button they will have no trouble taking down your army. they wont even be slowed down much since you have so little ranged firepower. the sunken colony will reach firebats, if not marines/goliath too already. if you do something extreme, their fast increasing number of zerglings with a good flank will make short work of them all. Well some firebats might survive but its mister sunken colony (they'll have had second by now, if needed) will make them almost useless. besides, their tech will be ready easily by now. which is, mutalisks or lurkers most likely. "While they're trying to get rid of my gol" why would they be so desperate over one goliath? it's firepower is less than marines. "i go for gols and tanks. Since i already have a starport, i send a SV for lurks." hah. yeah. right. first off that is very gas heavy. second, unless you managed to do some heavy damage with the drop (and it definately wont work each time, probably not even half of the time. or well, depends how skilled players you play against) it simply wont work. You need a early expansion with such a gas heavy build, or it wont work. well. you wont have a big army when you expand, or your expansion will be late. and their lurkers and zerglings or even mutalisks and zerglings will most likely slow you down quite a bit. really. Also, zerglings and lurkers is a stupid counter for metal aka goliaths and tanks etc. what you really need to do against that combo, is mass hydralisks and mutalisks. if you get more tanks, you make more mutas, if they get more goliaths, you make more hydralisks. You'd really be surprised how good that combo does against metal. in fact, if you go for tanks he only needs mutas to wipe out your army, rather easily, too. ######################################################## Here are some educational replays of really good players, gosus so to speak. some of them even progamers. these are basic games for you. A terran versus protoss replay: http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9333 A terran versus zerg replay: http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9272 again terran versus protoss, the terran is #2 of the world right now: http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9257 Another terran versus zerg: http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9230 And here is a Terran versus terran: http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9207 Since no one makes metal against zerg because it sucks, I don't have replays of progamers doing it. Therefore, my own replays will have to suffice. THESE WERE NOT STAGED, THEY WERE PLAYED ABOUT A MONTH AGO! http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7852&d=1183756783 and http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7853&d=1183756783 My opponent in first game is nesh, aka rS.nesh who is maybe top 10 in US. might be top 20 too... not sure. and no, if he had gone metal he would not have fared better. maybe lasted few more minutes but it would have been over anyway. on second game I played against this andreyy, who is a very good player too. And yes, he made no tanks, but if he had, I would have made more mutas, like I explained earlier. hope this clears this shit out yo ~~ haha rofl so long post =D dunno how I bothered heh. oh and on second of my replays, did you see how easily zerglings and lurkers got raped by ONLY goliaths? yeah? the guys you played against probably only used those. the real counter is hydras and mutalisks tho. |
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| 8, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
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Ahahahahahaha, omg <3 ahzz. You tore everyone here a new one, omg. lmfao. Dudes, Ahzz is teh ultimate here. Finnish SC pro, ftw. Just my 2 cents - AtomicKitten fails. We have more than enough members like you. If we had half as many people like ahzz or starcrafterkid as we have of people like you, AK, this site would be much more successful. Truly, I see nothing particularly noobworthy of this strategy. Your comments about it, on the other hand, are a complete flop. The irony makes me wonder if you have ever played on battle.net. -With love, recalled to life, once more to live, one life to give, protothegod <3 |
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| 9, losttt | |||||||
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"MnM is NOT good against zerg by themselves, or even with tanks" Useless = You. Please dont post shit again AtomicKitten, thanks  |
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| 10, losttt | |||||||
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Oh and, good strategy Starcraft Kid, I give it a good =) | ||||||
| 11, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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a) How the fuck does one micro rines and medics against lurks WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE DETECTION? b) I go for Gols and SV's while the enemy goes for mutas and hydras, and you say I'M gas heavy? I admit, a gosu player I'm not, but at least I can do simple math, and in the beginning, i did state that this was a gas heavy build. Why state the obvious? c) The point of the drop is to HARASS, not to do any damage. It's the fabled micromanagement that you talk about. Any decent zerg won't have sunkens at every freaking corner of their base. if they have it at the middle of their mineral patch, you go on the outside of the mineral patch because goliaths have *rangeeee*, so yes you can avoid the sunks while still hitting 1/4th of the drones at their patch. d) They're desperate to get rid of the gol is because it's freaking annoying. Would you like a goliath, a fbat and a medic in your base harassing you at all times? e) ""Lurks>rines" and who doesn't know that? he said AND tanks, tanks have bigger range, and anhilate lurkers fast. you think anyone would be so stupid they'd just attack move lurkers with mass marines? rofl. now you're about to say "they have zerglings too!" eh? well of course I know that. and that is why you got marines. you'd be surprised how fast stimmed marines annhilate zerglings. " He said "Maybe tanks later", maybe means, he MIGHT make tanks, later means, AFTER HE ATTACKS. With common sense and simple grammar skills, i can deduce from the sentence that he will make tanks AFTER he attacks with the MnM. Jeebus people. f) ""nobody puts only 1 scv on a mineral patch, even noobs" imo it was exaggeration. what he's trying to bring out, is that you gotta make alot of them. well over 2 or maybe even 3 per mineral patch, atleast for a while." After defending his exaggeration, you make fun of the ""Lurks>rines" and who doesn't know that? he said AND tanks, tanks have bigger range, and anhilate lurkers fast. you think anyone would be so stupid they'd just attack move lurkers with mass marines? rofl." If he's entitled to a bit of exaggeration, why can't i exaggerate? Hypocrite. g) Finally, i admit that i probably do NOT play that much, and I'm NOT the best player on SC, so i do NOT have the most valuable advice to give. BUT, I am entitled to my opinion, and he ASKED for constructive criticism, and I TRIED to give it to him. I also did NOT degrade him in my comments as you did to mine, i only gave a possible scenario and my thoughts. ALSO, a direct quote from lammas "Almost everything said there is plain wrong sorry." , and that was a comment to Starcrafterkid's strategy without any explanation. a) How the fuck does one micro rines and medics against lurks WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE DETECTION? b) I go for Gols and SV's while the enemy goes for mutas and hydras, and you say I'M gas heavy? I admit, a gosu player I'm not, but at least I can do simple math, and in the beginning, i did state that this was a gas heavy build. Why state the obvious? c) The point of the drop is to HARASS, not to do any damage. It's the fabled micromanagement that you talk about. Any decent zerg won't have sunkens at every freaking corner of their base. if they have it at the middle of their mineral patch, you go on the outside of the mineral patch because goliaths have *rangeeee*, so yes you can avoid the sunks while still hitting 1/4th of the drones at their patch. d) They're desperate to get rid of the gol is because it's freaking annoying. Would you like a goliath, a fbat and a medic in your base harassing you at all times? e) ""Lurks>rines" and who doesn't know that? he said AND tanks, tanks have bigger range, and anhilate lurkers fast. you think anyone would be so stupid they'd just attack move lurkers with mass marines? rofl. now you're about to say "they have zerglings too!" eh? well of course I know that. and that is why you got marines. you'd be surprised how fast stimmed marines annhilate zerglings. " He said "Maybe tanks later", maybe means, he MIGHT make tanks, later means, AFTER HE ATTACKS. With common sense and simple grammar skills, i can deduce from the sentence that he will make tanks AFTER he attacks with the MnM. Jeebus people. f) ""nobody puts only 1 scv on a mineral patch, even noobs" imo it was exaggeration. what he's trying to bring out, is that you gotta make alot of them. well over 2 or maybe even 3 per mineral patch, atleast for a while." After defending his exaggeration, you make fun of the ""Lurks>rines" and who doesn't know that? he said AND tanks, tanks have bigger range, and anhilate lurkers fast. you think anyone would be so stupid they'd just attack move lurkers with mass marines? rofl." If he's entitled to a bit of exaggeration, why can't i exaggerate? Hypocrite. g) Finally, i admit that i probably do NOT play that much, and I'm NOT the best player on SC, so i do NOT have the most valuable advice to give. BUT, I am entitled to my opinion, and he ASKED for constructive criticism, and I TRIED to give it to him. I also did NOT degrade him in my comments as you did to mine, i only gave a possible scenario and my thoughts. ALSO, a direct quote from lammas "Almost everything said there is plain wrong sorry." , and that was a comment to Starcrafterkid's strategy without any explanation, yet you mentioned nothing in your rant about that. If that's the case, from now on i should just give my thoughts without any explanation or debate. If a strategy is crap, then that's what i'll put down. @Losttt: Before you comment on MY uselessness, try posting something yourself. If you think you're so good, play me. I'm not that great, but i can still use you as toilet paper. Sigh... quite a rant, no? Well before you think too harshly of me, I just did what you did, took what i thought was wrong and displayed my opinions on it. If you think that's wrong, then there's something wrong with this community. I respect your opinion Ahzz, and you should respect mine. -AtomicKitten |
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| 12, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
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""I respect your opinion Ahzz, and you should respect mine"" No. You should respect him because not only is he a MODERATOR OF THE FUCKING SECTION, but he has the seniority and experience. He has the title and skills to represent his entire country in starcraft. THAT is why you should respect him. You've posted bad ideas, not warranting a single iota of respect. The thing that I always have to tell peoploe like you is that, really, I dont give a flying fuck about your "opinion." Do you know why? Because this has NOTHING TO DO WIT OPINION. this isnt a question of preference, this is about what works and wht doesnt. Your opinion could very well be that mass scv > lurker. Know what? You're fucking wrong, and if you expect a single goddamned person on this site to pretend it's correct, just to spare your ego, you have another thing coming. It isnt that something is wrong with this site, it's that something is wrong with you, and I dont fucking care what it is or why you believe what you believe, because at the end of the day YOUR strategy will get players ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE, and ahzz/starcraftkid will win people games. Go ahead n say w/e you like, but really, truly, you're fucking wrong, n' all the sugarcoated answers with rainbows and puppydogs arent gonna make you any more right. YOur opinion is jack shit, and ahzz's is the golden egg. I can only pray that no players will ever take your advice seriously. |
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| 13, losttt | |||||||
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You can use me as toliet paper? So il own your ass? Kthx. nw.lost @ USEAST come to op swbk and we see who gets owned =) oh and your still useless. Oh and, i actually wrote protoss vs terran guide a year ago with exceptional rank You fail. Come to op swbk please. |
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| 14, Mustard | |||||||
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Did you seriously fail, challenging pros saying you can use them as toilet paper? Your strat is plain and wrong, this strat posted is actually CLOSEST that Ive seen on sc.org to what regular decent players use. Goliaths are never used in TvZ, that drop would be overwhelmed by a small amount of zergling, etc, etc. We can continually prove your points wrong. If I could compare your strat to this one, I would have to say this would be Boxer vs Computer. That would be very pathetic for Boxer would definetly beat a Blizzard computer. As you see people agree with ahzz for a reason, cause he has experience, he knows what he's saying, and he's a MOD for a reason, not because they felt like hiring him as a MOD for the fun of it. Now you have two choices, one is to accept that your ideas are extremely stupid, learn from your mistakes, and take in this strat is good, or continue with your stupid ways of being a noob which refuses to learn. Now, I dont have to explain your choices again do I? Btw you can beat lurkers with MnM only without detection. Ive dont it with 2 marines and 2 medics against 3-4 lurkers and won. And many others have done same thing. Hit and run tactic, also if you want you can scan everynow and then cause YOU HAVE SCAN WHEN YOU USUALLY GET ACADEMY. But if you play without comsat, I cant wait for someone to lurker rush you. |
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| 15, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
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Mustard, I'm not even gonna touch your post. <.< Just let him play lost and we'll see. BTW, to give this discussion some level of non-suck, I will point out ahzz's ai fusion project. When it's done (if its done) it will own boxer. Given that it will have perfect micro, and simultaneously perfect macro, it should be, theoretically, unstoppable. |
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| 16, Mustard | |||||||
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Btw you can beat lurkers with MnM only without detection. Ive dont it with 2 marines and 2 medics against 3-4 lurkers and won. And many others have done same thing. Hit and run tactic, also if you want you can scan everynow and then cause YOU HAVE SCAN WHEN YOU USUALLY GET ACADEMY. But if you play without comsat, I cant wait for someone to lurker rush you. | ||||||
| 17, ShadeZ | |||||||
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AtomicKitten, you fail against mutas. That is all. I guess I should say a little bit more then that. Terran needs marines, because although they are not the counter to lurkers, they are the counter to zerglings and mutalisks, and your strategy fails horribly against these units. Metal just doesn't work against mutalisks, and if you say something about mutalisks not being lurkers, zerg can change their tune pretty quickly, and lurkers can quite easily be natural follow ups to mutas. |
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| 18, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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"How the fuck does one micro rines and medics against lurks WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE DETECTION?" I mostly said you don't run them straight to the trap yes? besides, you get academy as you get meds/stimpack and comsat too. The most basic m&m micro even inexperienced can pull off, is that they shoot, stimpack, and run away, forcing the lurkers to unburrow again. "I go for Gols and SV's while the enemy goes for mutas and hydras, and you say I'M gas heavy? I admit, a gosu player I'm not, but at least I can do simple math, and in the beginning, i did state that this was a gas heavy build. Why state the obvious?" yes you did say that. now how you gonna manage it? well okay if you do one expansion pretty fast, such as in the second one of my replays (did you even watch it?)... you can do it somehow but it might bring some trouble. Besides, how is hydra muta more gas heavy? damn, you can even do almost pure hydra, you cant spend all the gas you get even from just 1 expansion. usually. "The point of the drop is to HARASS, not to do any damage. It's the fabled micromanagement that you talk about. Any decent zerg won't have sunkens at every freaking corner of their base. if they have it at the middle of their mineral patch, you go on the outside of the mineral patch because goliaths have *rangeeee*, so yes you can avoid the sunks while still hitting 1/4th of the drones at their patch." yes goliaths got range. now the remove that 1/4 of drones and transfer then to the expansion they probably made right away. wow, what you gonna do about that? besides they probably have quite a bit of lings coming, and if you stay in the open like you are now, all units are gg. and I never said about every corner. I only said about 1 sunk in middle of hatch and minerals. and if its about right sort of map, and right placed minerals, your goliath might have hard time even finding a single drone. "The point of the drop is to HARASS, not to do any damage." uh so harass isn't damage now? damage imo is also slowing him down, taking out his units etc. ok maybe the damage isnt big, but if the damage isnt big like I got out of this, why make it in the first place? if you want to see how the pros do, check this replay: (I bet my ass you didnt watch any of these. Just jab your arrogant newbie mouth) http://sc.gosugamers.net/admin/replays.php?dl=9230 see? even thought the zerg got caught completely off guard they still fended him off. one goliath aint gonna do a shit. "They're desperate to get rid of the gol is because it's freaking annoying. Would you like a goliath, a fbat and a medic in your base harassing you at all times?" now how is 'all times' now, if you start making drops, you place scourges to strategical positions. (see the replay, again) and did you even read my post properly? because I said as long you dont press the panic button, which the guys you play obviously do as it shows, you're doing fine. and like you already admit, goliath can only attack 1/4 of the drones, big deal because they have the expansion "WHY WOULD THEY HAVE EXPO LOL!" would be your reply huh? again, check some of the replays. The thing is, if you get greedy its already over, the terran loses its position, and is very easily overrun. And do you seriously think I'd come and focusfire a zealot with, say, 12 lings just because it has range, and 3 firebats next to it? haha. "He said "Maybe tanks later", maybe means, he MIGHT make tanks, later means, AFTER HE ATTACKS. With common sense and simple grammar skills, i can deduce from the sentence that he will make tanks AFTER he attacks with the MnM. Jeebus people." I already explained that you can go m&m + mass vessels, but its quite micro intensive. Have you ever heard of the m&m rush? happens about 9.5 times out of ten. Again you probably didnt read my post, or look the replays. The thing is, if they do m&m rush the point is NOT to suicide them, the point is to force him spend money on some sunken colonies. each sunken colony is worth 175, they need atleast 3 to fend M&m attack off. overall they lose 525 minerals, which is alot. it could be used in making another expansion and getting better economy. And yes, as this will wipe out most noobs who dont play correct, that is why its a MAYBE AFTER. and haha. thats what you do, thats what he told you to. rush with m&m like I explained, force him to waste money on sunkens and a few lings, and back off later on. come back with tanks and story goes on. And what is this really? Now you're saying that, and just a second ago you said m&m sucks even WITH tanks. huh? looks like you're running out of things to comply from. "If he's entitled to a bit of exaggeration, why can't i exaggerate? Hypocrite." ... I said it was exaggeration, and what he means with that is that you make alot of scvs. many newbies make maybe 14 or so and stop there. you shouldnt tho. and about that. haha. Well maybe lurkers > rines is exaggeration, but it certainly didnt seem like it because you all the time said "lurkers own rines, lurkers > rines, lurkers pwn the shit out of rines." so, yeah. "Finally, i admit that i probably do NOT play that much, and I'm NOT the best player on SC, so i do NOT have the most valuable advice to give. BUT, I am entitled to my opinion, and he ASKED for constructive criticism, and I TRIED to give it to him. I also did NOT degrade him in my comments as you did to mine, i only gave a possible scenario and my thoughts." the thing is, starcraft aint a matter of opinion. only very small things are a matter of opinion. This is atleast if you want to get better. you can spend three years playing 100% on your 'own style' so to speak, only to find those years wasted and you're now at same place other people are. wow? as soon as you realize that you are wrong and listen to the better players, you'll start learning. trust me  "ALSO, a direct quote from lammas "Almost everything said there is plain wrong sorry." , and that was a comment to Starcrafterkid's strategy without any explanation, yet you mentioned nothing in your rant about that. If that's the case, from now on i should just give my thoughts without any explanation or debate. If a strategy is crap, then that's what i'll put down." I did. when larvicheee asked if its favoritism, I explained that the basics were right, did I not? lammas already covered that part of it, why'd I need to drill on? "@Losttt: Before you comment on MY uselessness, try posting something yourself. If you think you're so good, play me. I'm not that great, but i can still use you as toilet paper." Yes that should be fun to watch. no backing off please, meet him up. Because you seriously wont do a shit against him unless you play drastically different than as you say. I can play you too. Us.east gNs.I-Ahzz msg me any time, I'm usually on op swbk what is your account? Also, out of curiosity, how many 1v1's have you played, about? "Sigh... quite a rant, no? Well before you think too harshly of me, I just did what you did, took what i thought was wrong and displayed my opinions on it. If you think that's wrong, then there's something wrong with this community. I respect your opinion Ahzz, and you should respect mine." yeah displaying opinions is fine. we can always teach you why they're wrong lol (I'm serious, and I'm not insulting you now ;o)Well yes I would say there's something wrong about this community. it feels stupid to badmouth the place you're mod at, but let us say that it's very widely know that the skill level over here isn't very high. and that is partly the reason why I actually took this spot, I want to improve it! |
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| 19, ShadeZ | |||||||
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Sunks cost 125 minerals total, not 175. 75 for creep, 50 for sunk. | ||||||
| 20, unholyassassin | |||||||
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Lol ahzz, what you've posted is a strat in itself, longer than this one  . BTW, to the person who compares lost to toilet paper, good luck, you'll need it. Lost, Ahzz, and lammas are probrably amongst the best players of this site.As for the strat and arguments...well...I can't say much because there's very little argued about the protoss, my area of "expertise". Other than to constantly comsat throughout the game, because you'd never know when someone is crazy enough to rush carriers...>_> |
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| 21, thedutchjelle (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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Longest posts EVER in here. The strat was okay. The comments were gold. Hopeless encounters succesfully won Thedutchjelle |
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| 22, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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shadez, AND 50 from drone, stoooopid ;p I just got the idea that atomickitten didn't even read my post very closely, even much less looked the educational replays I posted. |
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| 23, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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Wow, yesterday, my strategy had a below average rating and now it is a good! I would like to thank Ahzz, for all the help into supporting my strategy. Thank you very much. All of you (except AtomicKitten) helped me in a way. BTW, I tried AtomicKitten's strategy a while ago and it doesn't work. If the Zerg knows how to kill and harass before one gets metal, it's all over. M&Ms is much faster and more efficient. Same to you protogod I'm going to revise this strategy or start a TvP one. Im so thankful for all of you. THank you Thank you! |
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| 24, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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"ALSO, a direct quote from lammas "Almost everything said there is plain wrong sorry." , and that was a comment to Starcrafterkid's strategy without any explanation, yet you mentioned nothing in your rant about that. If that's the case, from now on i should just give my thoughts without any explanation or debate. If a strategy is crap, then that's what i'll put down." Yes actually I was partly wrong sry all for that. Ill be more specific: You must make at least two barracks at the beginning of the game and quickly tech up to Medics and then Tanks. Kinda. But saying must makes it sound like there is no other way when there are many good 1rax builds. The point of a M&M strategy is to attack quickly. It depends of the m&m strategy. There are maybe 25 diffrent opening builds with m&ms and maybe 10 that arent about any early attack. Assuming he meant m&m builds in general. Against Zerg, it's best to expand when the enemy expands. Quite oftenly not. If Zerg makes an early expansion, most likely, they will have a small army and stim-paked Marines with Medics will be able to deal with Zerglings and Hydralisks. He wont have any lings and hydras to be dealt with if he does f e and knows what he is doing. Upgrading armour is very important so Sunkens won't do 2 hit KOs on the Marines (Even if you have Medics, it won't really help). Indeed Lurkers are also a terrifying problem. If the rush Lurks up to your M&Ms, I suggest either to run away, micro (select all Marines and attack one Lurker, this only works if they have a small amount of Lurkers). Yeah tho running away is part of microing and you can micro vs them many other ways than killing a lurk at a time. "@Losttt: Before you comment on MY uselessness, try posting something yourself. If you think you're so good, play me. I'm not that great, but i can still use you as toilet paper." Ahahhah. Good luck trying! |
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| 25, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
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""Same to you protogod"" Are you comparing me to ahzz or atomickitten? Theres a biiiiiiig difference....lolz |
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| 26, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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okay I believe this is quite enough, if atomickitten learned his mistake, its all good. Now let's drop it unless he wants to continue it. Though I hope he still comes on and plays us :/ certain... things might be easier to realize then. |
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| 27, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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Sadly, there would be no contest, but who knows, i might learn something. Lasciel @US East, if you're bored or something. Fact is that i don't play much now, so catch me on of you can. -AtomicKitten |
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| 28, WorldCommunist8 | |||||||
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Ahzz/ Lost/ Proto/ Lammas FTW. AK FTL. Overall, it was a decent strategy, a little vague in spots, but not useless. I'm no Gosu or any shit, I barely play, but you've got the basic idea nailed down like Ahzz said. I do like that fact that your considering to revise it, as it would probably make this an even better strat. Look over Ahzz/ Lost/ Proto/ Lammas criticism for some pointers. |
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| 29, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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sigh.. you don't know shit about me, so shut the fuck up. Regards, AtomicKitten |
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| 30, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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Okay, guys, just back off AtomicKitten. It's okay if one has his or her own opinion. AtomicKitten already said he'll stop chopping up my work. I know, we had some problems in the past, but I would like to make our relationship work, in a friendly non-gay kind of way (considering your a boy). And to WorldCommunist8 and any other person who liked my strategy, I will revise this sooner or later and start a TvP one. Although, I need some help for a TvT strategy. Thank you, all (Especially Ahzz for giving me all the back up, great tips that could help any Terran player and great overall support.) Also, I'd like to thank you protogod for just being a good guy! |
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| 31, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
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The thing is - we arent talking about you. We are talking about what you said. And you know what you said? Alot of shit. Now stop chickening out, that was really gay of you to run away on bnet. | ||||||
| 32, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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??? Running away on bnet ??? When did I do that? And I think that what I said says a lot about me, imo. But don't talk shit and crap about me now, okay? LoL |
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| 33, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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Iam fairly sure protos comment was directed to your. | ||||||
| 34, thedutchjelle (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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I am fairly sure that protogod was talking about atomickitten* ? Hopeless encounters succesfully won Thedutchjelle |
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| 35, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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asdf this forum needs an edit button: "Iam fairly sure protos comment was directed to your." *was not oh theres extra r too "Iam fairly sure protos comment was directed to your." *was not directed to you |
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| 36, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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roffel. | ||||||
| 37, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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roflmao, okay, okay, haha. I get it |
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| 38, ILOVELAMP | |||||||
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I put one scv on 5 mineral patches, that way the minerals last longer, and I respect all moderators. | ||||||
| 39, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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Hmmm... lets go over this again. I admit i won't win against Lost, but decide to humor you by playing lost anyways. That was the plan, then comes a whole load of shit about kirbyman specs and continuous abuse for the entire 10 minutes before the game started. Guess what i did for that 10 minutes? NOTHING. You know what else is funny? The fact that Ahzz actually took the time to explain what was wrong while you thought you did something. As far as this goes for me, I'll find Lost someday, play him and see what happens (a probable loss), no matter what happens though, you won't be there to see it because neither you or your kirbyman friends are going to be there to see it, kk? End of discussion. -AtomicKitten |
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| 40, sdbolts11 | |||||||
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@Shadez, Comment 19 "Sunks cost 125 minerals total, not 175. 75 for creep, 50 for sunk." Actually, they essentially cost 175 minerals. 50 for mutating the drone, 75 for creep, and 50 for sunken. Don't forget to add in the drone in building cost. |
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| 41, Mustard | |||||||
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Chances are we will see it cause you can save replays fyi | ||||||
| 42, losttt | |||||||
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Uh guys, stop bashing on AtomicKitten. He said he made a mistake, no need to attack him more. | ||||||
| 43, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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Ughhhh... got me so caught up I'm starting to make grammatical errors =/ Anyhow, thanks lostt and sorry for calling you a turd =D -AtomicKitten |
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| 44, Salvatore321 | |||||||
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But.... he is a turd ;-D!! | ||||||
| 45, losttt | |||||||
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salv go suck on a stolong lol |
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| 46, MatGeo | |||||||
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Where's the +rep button? Ahzz deserves a lot xD "kirbyman friends" o.O You dare challenge the kirby clan? Our probes shall make you pay! then our scout/queen combo will kill all! >:] *note*: The above statement related to kirby and his strats was ENTIRELY a joke, no one should take it seriously lawl  |
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| 47, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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BTW: The reason I don't watch replays is because I literally have dial-up speed internet. I average 50kb/s when downloading, so watching a replay takes me like a day to dl =/ | ||||||
| 48, thedutchjelle (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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...i dunno for sure, but replays are hardly more than a few KB. Hopeless encounters succesfully won Thedutchjelle |
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| 49, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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Replays are < 300kb. Most commonly 150kb | ||||||
| 50, thedutchjelle (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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But still, 150 kb with 50kb/sec takes 3 second, not a whole day >_>' Hopeless encounters succesfully won Thedutchjelle |
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| 51, StarcrafterKid | |||||||
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Yay 51st comment! Haha! | ||||||
| 52, Rollos | |||||||
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I gave it a good. I thought that replays would have a big memory size just like trailers and movie-clips that you get on you-tube... maybe I'm wrong so please don't attack me verbally. :| |
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| 53, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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replays are very small (actually often like 80kb) because they are only list of the actions done during the game and contain no pictures. Brood war just reconstrucks the game with the information of replay file. | ||||||
| 54, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
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and that is why older replays dont always work, something costs less or something, and therefore the actions gradually screw up | ||||||
| 55, broodbuddy | |||||||
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"I know, we had some problems in the past, but I would like to make our relationship work, in a friendly non-gay kind of way" teehee |
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| 56, ButcherUSMC | |||||||
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Yes. I dl'd the replays and even though I have DSL, I clicked save to disk and there is was on my desktop fully downloaded and ready. My friend dl'd the same thing with his dial up and you know how long it took him? 2 seconds. He clicked save to disk and minimized the screen and there it was. That fast. So stop chickening out and watch the damn uber replays AtomicKitten. | ||||||
| 57, Hyperion | |||||||
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StarcraftKid - Good Job, I give it a GOOD. Because its short, on the point and correct. You should thank Ahhz for this BTW. AND on TvT, I prefer Gol Drops and like what you said, Wraiths. Ahzz - LOL I got the link to this place for SWBK(From your topic). This place is like a Warzone lol, luckily you came and supported StarcraftKid for this. Atomic Kitten - You dont know who lost is LOL. I mean WTF "I can still use you for toilet paper". Don't say that to people you don't know yet(Unless you're drunk/angry/dead/sleepy/drugged) but its a good thing you apologized . And the other statement "Nobody puts only 1 scv on a mineral patch, even noobs". He's not a noob, and he knows what hes doing. He's just trying to clarify something to those who are still noobs, but still doesn't know how to play. |
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| 58, TheHybrid | |||||||
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But still, 150 kb with 50kb/sec takes 3 second, not a whole day >_>' I had dial-up once too. It depends on how good the line is, dude. I had a theoretical speed of 56 kbps. In truth, my max dl speed was 5 kbps, and the average was 2 kbps. Now I have ADSL and my theoretical speed is 1536 kbps, when it's actually 156 kbps. Go figure! -_-" |
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| 59, slayedman | |||||||
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this is actually very good! i agree u should attack early if ur TvZ if u dont attack and attack late, its over! theyll get defs and ultras! In TvP, u better get vults and mines! if u wanna survive! KILL 'EM TO DEATH! -slayedman |
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| 60, ILOVELAMP | |||||||
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Atomic Kitten, where oh where did you go? | ||||||
| 61, AtomicKitten | |||||||
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I'm right here bby =[ | ||||||
