Kirby's ultimate protoss special strategy guide.
Author: kirbythegod
For money maps: No
Difficulty: Intermediate
Comments: 102 (Watch for comments!, Add to favorites)
Views: 9599
semi-new update:kirby has retired from sc.
Kirbyman1
Ultimate protoss strategies guide (written in real English :d)
Well I am quite sure that many of you know what you think are my strategies by now. Mass scouts and mass archives. Well let’s put that aside now. I will organize my strategies by matchup, these may work on my maps, but if a strategy is clearly for Lost Temple I will say so.
PvP
Kirby’s reaver drop:
A standard reaver drop except you use two reavers and you utitlize the click and drop reaver buttons to drop the reavers evenly spaced in their probes in order to prevent their escape. If they’ve taken their natural, you can drop one in their main and one in their natural.
Kirby’s carrier remover:
Now other than mass scouts, mass da’s, and mass psi storm, I have another highly effective way of dealing with carriers. Upon scouting the massing carriers, usually signified by large amounts of stargates with a fleet beacon. At this time you should being massing archons, have 3 stargates and get 3 arbs. When the carriers attack, one casts 2 stasis to cover all the carriers, another stasises their arbs if any, and the third will recall ur awaiting archon group directly under their carriers, after recall wears off their carriers will die. Now, you may say, well what if their arb stasises you now? No problem, just keep about 4 archons under their arb to kill it off instantly, or just leave archons under his carriers, so if he does stasis you he’s not really accomplishing anything.
Kirby’s drop enhancer:
Basically you hallucinate your shuttles to allow them access to heavily defended areas.
Kirby’s friend:
Basically this is just using dark archons to negate/destroy enemy arbs, if using your own is not feasible in the time you have before carrier/arb army comes.
Kirby’s ledge steal(Lost Temple):
Essentially you shuttle a probe to your opponent’s ledge and build cannons, the twist here being that you deliver hts to the ledge around the same time, securing access to it and allowing them to reinforce your real army when you attack them. You also deny them that expo permanently.
Kirby’s ramp block:
Stasising 1-2 dragoon or archon-lot to block your ramp is nothing new, but its worth mentioning. ALSO WORKS vs. zerg and terran.
Note: I don’t have many strats for PvP because there aren’t too many to do that people don’t already know.
PvT
Kirby’s dt surprise:
This is a highly risky build, and its one I would recommend often. Basically early on you sneak a probe out to some hidden place on the map and build pylon citadel, 2 gates, then archives and robo there, and carry out a dt drop on your terran foe. Can win games for and it can also lose games for you. The mindset here being that if you can take out their comsat you can stop any counterattack they may launch with their forces at your base by sending more dts to help out.
Carrier/Sair/Ob:Assuming each of these units has their respective techs, this is a combo that’s near impossible for terran to stop with any of their standard anti-air units. It will catch them off guard and with d web’s help they will die fast and hard. Mass sairs will fry any wraiths that go hunting for your 12 +obs. The carriers will work on demolition, go for their science facility, without this they cant get their ghosts with lockdown or emp.
Comsat raid:
Another way to checkmate a terran is to drop each of their comsats and destroy them, thus allowing to defeat their army. The most common application of this is if you have carriers attacking their bases and they are counterattacking, you should go for their comsats first. Taking out all of a terran player's comsats is an extremely effective strategy to foil nearly any attack they can send. Science veselss if present can just be stasised.
Scv steal:
(Lost temple)
Its almost a given that the terran player will be mining his nat at some point of the game, if you are maxed and you have a lot of probes, making you unable to keep up an army with the terran who has less eco but much more supply left over for his army, you may need to steal a scv. The mindset being that either he will waste all his army trying to get that scv before it finishes a cc or, he will die badly since you may now make only terran army units without making any scvs to waste supply. Before I continue you may ask, well how does one go about stealing an scv? First surround a small clearing with about 20 cannons. Simple, bring 3 sairs with full energy to their nat ledge, and a shuttle with 2 da’s with all ups. Quickly d web any tanks turrets present, mc the scvs from above, and steal 2 if you can. Bring them inside of the cannons and get working on two cc’s. Should he do the classic suicidal wraith charge and kill your scvs, he will certainly lose more than enough scvs to balance it out, Also, if you add an extra shuttle you will get your 2 da’s out alive, and they will help stop wraiths with feedback. Once your ccs are done, what you make depends on what your enemy has, if he has a lot of wraiths,bcs, and valks, mass bcs is prob not way to go. Try a dweb assisted tank push instead, backed up with arbs, hts, and sairs. Continue making das to thwart his bcs. Also, most importantly, get around 4 ccs with comsat to thwart the strategy of ob hunting, this will be a massive blow to the terran to have his wraiths rendered near useless. For added effect, you can set a trap for him. Mass about 20 sairs outside his main with only 2 obs, and let him kill obs. Have your hotkeyed comsats ready, then watch as all his wraiths die and you are cursed out. Ok but if he is tank, turret goliath whoring, mass bcs will all ups is certainly a valid option. You still have your d webs so you will be ok. Bc/tank/turrets is also a devastating combo, allowing you to fire yamatoes at ease. If you wish to get nukes, don’t waste them, he’ll catch on to your nukes after first attempt, and probably go after your silos, which are weak targets and will probably get it. Try not to let him get nukes either, use your yamatoes to make sure of this.
Dweb/storm
Simply, d web enemy army to allow you to lay down storms, very deadly vs.tanks and infantry.
Zealot drop 4.0
This is for very large tank pushes, first you run some zealots out to take blows, then you move in two arbs, as one will probably die, and recall a large group of dts/ and zealots over the tanks, halting the push. If you a stasis left, quickly target any nearby tanks.
Wraith a cide:(Lost Temple)
If one of your obs has discovered your enemy massing wraiths in a corner, (you may laugh but wraiths can be very effective at stopping you from expoing since until you get cannons up you won’t have any solid detection.). Shuttle over some das. Select them, and start hitting f to feedback wraiths. This is usually a one hit kill for them and each da can take 5 wraiths. If he/she retardedly fights back, kill more wraiths. After that you probably won’t have to worry about wraiths from him/her.
Tank push buster da style:
Basically you want to d web the front of their push, and mc tanks. With enough da’s you can prevent the push from getting to you, this also stops the common tactic of using dropships to extend a push up a cliff, as he’ll lose his dropship to mc and perhaps if you’re quick, you’ll get its contents too, and this usually means an scv too.
Dweb/goon/ob
This is a highly deadly combo, which requires a lot of micro but is practically unstoppable by the time its ready. Essentially you assault the terran, with the goons, d webbing any tanks and bunkers he may have, and just walk over him, usually a gg. Obs will help you with pesky mines. DON’T SEND ZEALOTS AS D WEB WILL RENDER THEM USELESS!
Dt spread: Place one dt at every expo to watch and/or kill terran expo attempts, works for a short time only.
Vult masher:Many terrans like to spread mines all over their base to stop recalls and drops, this is not a problem, simply use archons in your recall to be immune to mines, you won’t need obs, d web is optional but helpful. Also the vults wont fare well against your archons either, especially since your going to take out all his turrets, and a comsat, and vulture micro wont be enough to stop temporarily uncloaked archons due to any remaining comsats he decides to waste. Archons are moderately effective vs.tanks, not great but not bad either. If you have a stasis left, this can help even odds vs.tanks, and/or allow you to use that ramp block technique by putting 2 archons on ramp and stasising them. Once that happens, w/e base you’re in is done for.
PvZ
Kirby’s overlord rapers: Normally when a zerg sees that you have corsairs, he’s going to assume you’re going dt/sair and hes going to put hydras and spores under his overlords, and in his mind he’s now invincible to your corsairs. He was right about the dt/sair thing, but not about his overlords living. Tech to dweb, keep making sairs, and use web to slay all or most of his overlords. Rinse and repeat, take the entire map, and own his overlordless armies with your dts. Move a probe to watch all expoes, and you just won the game. HOWEVER if he does a reactionary hydra strike to counter your fast sairs, you better harass those overlords well to buy time for cannons and storm. Also if he doesn’t have ov speed, he wont get far without your dts pushing him back, slowing him dramatically.
Kirby’s drop buster: NOTE THIS REQUIRES HEAVY SCOUTING BUT ITS AN INSTANT GG EVERY TIME!
This requires you to have recon all over the map, and about 3 da’s and 4 hts at all your bases. Basically if a mass of loaded ovs flies into your base, you mael and storm all of them, causing the zerg tremendous losses of both army and overlords, almost always costing him the game. Just for reference sake, lets say its 20 overlords, loaded with ultras and lings? Doesn’t require much micro to do this either, as ovs drop slow and often hell stand still as he does this, regardless, overlords are easy targets for mael then storm.
Kirby’s well what if I don’t have storm:
Well you may or may not know this, but maelstrom removes overlords ability to detect, allowing your dts which you should have at least 8 there to rape the drop and slow it down. Mc some ovs if you can.
Kirby’s no ob gambit:
A smart zerg may exploit a templar tech with lurkers, assuming then that you don’t have obs and that he can get past your cannons. Well if you mind control an overlord or 2, you can play the rest of the game without ever getting obs, saving yourself tons of money and letting you focus more on your army. You may also get speed ovs with drop if you’re lucky. However, reavers are always useful for many situations involving zerg ground attacks, and if later on you have a strong eco, I see no reason not to get reavers to break the common sunk/lurk/spore defense.
Dt/arb
A more advanced version of dt/sair, that also counters drops and the hydra/ov combo. Essentially you stasis all his ovs, which will usually be clumped, again allowing your dts to wreak havoc on his army. Also can turn dts into ramp blockers. VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU KEEP DTS OFF TO SIDE BEFORE YOU DO THIS!!!! Hydras, and ultras chew through dts very fast, and lings if they have all ups. Also his army will have to abandon the overlords, kill these after stasis wears off. Mind also to add da’s to each base as he’ll need defilers or queens to stops this. Or an obscene amount of overlords, but if that’s the case he/she is forsaking detection elsewhere and that’s a risk that most would not be willing to take. Remember, u need a lot of dts to stop a large zerg army from still causing damage to your base. Zergs can do a lot of damage fast with ultra/ling.
Psionic lead:
This is simple, if you fnd a large hydra/ling army sitting outside his base or your’s, just run a zealot at them to keep hydras in place, then storm them all. This will make him/her mass elsewhere but if he persists, he/she will die.
“Lurk push buster”
This is an often comical way to stop a lurk push. Simply put you do have an ob but you don’t want zerg to know it, you mc a lurk and watch as he is either greatly confused, moves his lurks out, or dies. Note that he may send ovs to reinforce them, even one sair can stop that.
“The GGER”
Basically if you’re going for a large recall, try about 20 reavers fully loaded with about 20 sairs with d web and 10 obs, large and expensive yes but assured to destroy any zerb base with basically 0 casualties, and destroy it fast. You can go from base to with this and rape him, u could keep an arb at your bases to bring it home to defend if you must, it will serve you just as well.
“OTHER GGER”
This ones a lot simpler to do, just recall about 8 and 30 fully archons into their base, also a resounding gg for any base, and then they lose.
Sair/reaver:
WARNING REQUIRES HIGH APM THIS IS A GG IF YOU’RE A NOOB!
Use about 4 sairs with web to allow a 2 reaver drop to destroy the zerg’s expoes by negating hydras and lings by webbing just in front of reaavers. Note if you blow this, you will lose. For a drop you do this to sunkens and spores too, just don’t waste your webs is all that I can say.
Maelstrom/psi storm:
If you don’t know already know about the power of this combo, you are very bad or maybe you just don’t play protoss.
Zerg air composter:
Normally a common counter to mass sairs is a guardian/devourer strike on your main, sairs will fail against devourers badly, unless you have god micro, which I sure don’t. So use an arbiter to stasis devourers, then sairs can kill guards, lone devourers are 0 threat to you, if you get goons under them, then you really should. To those who say you won’t have arbs, I say devourers ARE VERY high-tech for zerg as well.
Final Bonus strat: Try using corsairs d web and storm to do a cannon push against a well defended zerg or toss base. D web is great for negating enemy cannons. Cannons take 40 seconds to build, so 2 webs with some zealot distraction after and you’re going to start pushing them in.
I hope you enjoyed this, and I think that I’ve given you all of my special strategies now. Gl Executors.
Edit:Added new strat
Kirbyman1
Ultimate protoss strategies guide (written in real English :d)
Well I am quite sure that many of you know what you think are my strategies by now. Mass scouts and mass archives. Well let’s put that aside now. I will organize my strategies by matchup, these may work on my maps, but if a strategy is clearly for Lost Temple I will say so.
PvP
Kirby’s reaver drop:
A standard reaver drop except you use two reavers and you utitlize the click and drop reaver buttons to drop the reavers evenly spaced in their probes in order to prevent their escape. If they’ve taken their natural, you can drop one in their main and one in their natural.
Kirby’s carrier remover:
Now other than mass scouts, mass da’s, and mass psi storm, I have another highly effective way of dealing with carriers. Upon scouting the massing carriers, usually signified by large amounts of stargates with a fleet beacon. At this time you should being massing archons, have 3 stargates and get 3 arbs. When the carriers attack, one casts 2 stasis to cover all the carriers, another stasises their arbs if any, and the third will recall ur awaiting archon group directly under their carriers, after recall wears off their carriers will die. Now, you may say, well what if their arb stasises you now? No problem, just keep about 4 archons under their arb to kill it off instantly, or just leave archons under his carriers, so if he does stasis you he’s not really accomplishing anything.
Kirby’s drop enhancer:
Basically you hallucinate your shuttles to allow them access to heavily defended areas.
Kirby’s friend:
Basically this is just using dark archons to negate/destroy enemy arbs, if using your own is not feasible in the time you have before carrier/arb army comes.
Kirby’s ledge steal(Lost Temple):
Essentially you shuttle a probe to your opponent’s ledge and build cannons, the twist here being that you deliver hts to the ledge around the same time, securing access to it and allowing them to reinforce your real army when you attack them. You also deny them that expo permanently.
Kirby’s ramp block:
Stasising 1-2 dragoon or archon-lot to block your ramp is nothing new, but its worth mentioning. ALSO WORKS vs. zerg and terran.
Note: I don’t have many strats for PvP because there aren’t too many to do that people don’t already know.
PvT
Kirby’s dt surprise:
This is a highly risky build, and its one I would recommend often. Basically early on you sneak a probe out to some hidden place on the map and build pylon citadel, 2 gates, then archives and robo there, and carry out a dt drop on your terran foe. Can win games for and it can also lose games for you. The mindset here being that if you can take out their comsat you can stop any counterattack they may launch with their forces at your base by sending more dts to help out.
Carrier/Sair/Ob:Assuming each of these units has their respective techs, this is a combo that’s near impossible for terran to stop with any of their standard anti-air units. It will catch them off guard and with d web’s help they will die fast and hard. Mass sairs will fry any wraiths that go hunting for your 12 +obs. The carriers will work on demolition, go for their science facility, without this they cant get their ghosts with lockdown or emp.
Comsat raid:
Another way to checkmate a terran is to drop each of their comsats and destroy them, thus allowing to defeat their army. The most common application of this is if you have carriers attacking their bases and they are counterattacking, you should go for their comsats first. Taking out all of a terran player's comsats is an extremely effective strategy to foil nearly any attack they can send. Science veselss if present can just be stasised.
Scv steal:
(Lost temple)
Its almost a given that the terran player will be mining his nat at some point of the game, if you are maxed and you have a lot of probes, making you unable to keep up an army with the terran who has less eco but much more supply left over for his army, you may need to steal a scv. The mindset being that either he will waste all his army trying to get that scv before it finishes a cc or, he will die badly since you may now make only terran army units without making any scvs to waste supply. Before I continue you may ask, well how does one go about stealing an scv? First surround a small clearing with about 20 cannons. Simple, bring 3 sairs with full energy to their nat ledge, and a shuttle with 2 da’s with all ups. Quickly d web any tanks turrets present, mc the scvs from above, and steal 2 if you can. Bring them inside of the cannons and get working on two cc’s. Should he do the classic suicidal wraith charge and kill your scvs, he will certainly lose more than enough scvs to balance it out, Also, if you add an extra shuttle you will get your 2 da’s out alive, and they will help stop wraiths with feedback. Once your ccs are done, what you make depends on what your enemy has, if he has a lot of wraiths,bcs, and valks, mass bcs is prob not way to go. Try a dweb assisted tank push instead, backed up with arbs, hts, and sairs. Continue making das to thwart his bcs. Also, most importantly, get around 4 ccs with comsat to thwart the strategy of ob hunting, this will be a massive blow to the terran to have his wraiths rendered near useless. For added effect, you can set a trap for him. Mass about 20 sairs outside his main with only 2 obs, and let him kill obs. Have your hotkeyed comsats ready, then watch as all his wraiths die and you are cursed out. Ok but if he is tank, turret goliath whoring, mass bcs will all ups is certainly a valid option. You still have your d webs so you will be ok. Bc/tank/turrets is also a devastating combo, allowing you to fire yamatoes at ease. If you wish to get nukes, don’t waste them, he’ll catch on to your nukes after first attempt, and probably go after your silos, which are weak targets and will probably get it. Try not to let him get nukes either, use your yamatoes to make sure of this.
Dweb/storm
Simply, d web enemy army to allow you to lay down storms, very deadly vs.tanks and infantry.
Zealot drop 4.0
This is for very large tank pushes, first you run some zealots out to take blows, then you move in two arbs, as one will probably die, and recall a large group of dts/ and zealots over the tanks, halting the push. If you a stasis left, quickly target any nearby tanks.
Wraith a cide:(Lost Temple)
If one of your obs has discovered your enemy massing wraiths in a corner, (you may laugh but wraiths can be very effective at stopping you from expoing since until you get cannons up you won’t have any solid detection.). Shuttle over some das. Select them, and start hitting f to feedback wraiths. This is usually a one hit kill for them and each da can take 5 wraiths. If he/she retardedly fights back, kill more wraiths. After that you probably won’t have to worry about wraiths from him/her.
Tank push buster da style:
Basically you want to d web the front of their push, and mc tanks. With enough da’s you can prevent the push from getting to you, this also stops the common tactic of using dropships to extend a push up a cliff, as he’ll lose his dropship to mc and perhaps if you’re quick, you’ll get its contents too, and this usually means an scv too.
Dweb/goon/ob
This is a highly deadly combo, which requires a lot of micro but is practically unstoppable by the time its ready. Essentially you assault the terran, with the goons, d webbing any tanks and bunkers he may have, and just walk over him, usually a gg. Obs will help you with pesky mines. DON’T SEND ZEALOTS AS D WEB WILL RENDER THEM USELESS!
Dt spread: Place one dt at every expo to watch and/or kill terran expo attempts, works for a short time only.
Vult masher:Many terrans like to spread mines all over their base to stop recalls and drops, this is not a problem, simply use archons in your recall to be immune to mines, you won’t need obs, d web is optional but helpful. Also the vults wont fare well against your archons either, especially since your going to take out all his turrets, and a comsat, and vulture micro wont be enough to stop temporarily uncloaked archons due to any remaining comsats he decides to waste. Archons are moderately effective vs.tanks, not great but not bad either. If you have a stasis left, this can help even odds vs.tanks, and/or allow you to use that ramp block technique by putting 2 archons on ramp and stasising them. Once that happens, w/e base you’re in is done for.
PvZ
Kirby’s overlord rapers: Normally when a zerg sees that you have corsairs, he’s going to assume you’re going dt/sair and hes going to put hydras and spores under his overlords, and in his mind he’s now invincible to your corsairs. He was right about the dt/sair thing, but not about his overlords living. Tech to dweb, keep making sairs, and use web to slay all or most of his overlords. Rinse and repeat, take the entire map, and own his overlordless armies with your dts. Move a probe to watch all expoes, and you just won the game. HOWEVER if he does a reactionary hydra strike to counter your fast sairs, you better harass those overlords well to buy time for cannons and storm. Also if he doesn’t have ov speed, he wont get far without your dts pushing him back, slowing him dramatically.
Kirby’s drop buster: NOTE THIS REQUIRES HEAVY SCOUTING BUT ITS AN INSTANT GG EVERY TIME!
This requires you to have recon all over the map, and about 3 da’s and 4 hts at all your bases. Basically if a mass of loaded ovs flies into your base, you mael and storm all of them, causing the zerg tremendous losses of both army and overlords, almost always costing him the game. Just for reference sake, lets say its 20 overlords, loaded with ultras and lings? Doesn’t require much micro to do this either, as ovs drop slow and often hell stand still as he does this, regardless, overlords are easy targets for mael then storm.
Kirby’s well what if I don’t have storm:
Well you may or may not know this, but maelstrom removes overlords ability to detect, allowing your dts which you should have at least 8 there to rape the drop and slow it down. Mc some ovs if you can.
Kirby’s no ob gambit:
A smart zerg may exploit a templar tech with lurkers, assuming then that you don’t have obs and that he can get past your cannons. Well if you mind control an overlord or 2, you can play the rest of the game without ever getting obs, saving yourself tons of money and letting you focus more on your army. You may also get speed ovs with drop if you’re lucky. However, reavers are always useful for many situations involving zerg ground attacks, and if later on you have a strong eco, I see no reason not to get reavers to break the common sunk/lurk/spore defense.
Dt/arb
A more advanced version of dt/sair, that also counters drops and the hydra/ov combo. Essentially you stasis all his ovs, which will usually be clumped, again allowing your dts to wreak havoc on his army. Also can turn dts into ramp blockers. VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU KEEP DTS OFF TO SIDE BEFORE YOU DO THIS!!!! Hydras, and ultras chew through dts very fast, and lings if they have all ups. Also his army will have to abandon the overlords, kill these after stasis wears off. Mind also to add da’s to each base as he’ll need defilers or queens to stops this. Or an obscene amount of overlords, but if that’s the case he/she is forsaking detection elsewhere and that’s a risk that most would not be willing to take. Remember, u need a lot of dts to stop a large zerg army from still causing damage to your base. Zergs can do a lot of damage fast with ultra/ling.
Psionic lead:
This is simple, if you fnd a large hydra/ling army sitting outside his base or your’s, just run a zealot at them to keep hydras in place, then storm them all. This will make him/her mass elsewhere but if he persists, he/she will die.
“Lurk push buster”
This is an often comical way to stop a lurk push. Simply put you do have an ob but you don’t want zerg to know it, you mc a lurk and watch as he is either greatly confused, moves his lurks out, or dies. Note that he may send ovs to reinforce them, even one sair can stop that.
“The GGER”
Basically if you’re going for a large recall, try about 20 reavers fully loaded with about 20 sairs with d web and 10 obs, large and expensive yes but assured to destroy any zerb base with basically 0 casualties, and destroy it fast. You can go from base to with this and rape him, u could keep an arb at your bases to bring it home to defend if you must, it will serve you just as well.
“OTHER GGER”
This ones a lot simpler to do, just recall about 8 and 30 fully archons into their base, also a resounding gg for any base, and then they lose.
Sair/reaver:
WARNING REQUIRES HIGH APM THIS IS A GG IF YOU’RE A NOOB!
Use about 4 sairs with web to allow a 2 reaver drop to destroy the zerg’s expoes by negating hydras and lings by webbing just in front of reaavers. Note if you blow this, you will lose. For a drop you do this to sunkens and spores too, just don’t waste your webs is all that I can say.
Maelstrom/psi storm:
If you don’t know already know about the power of this combo, you are very bad or maybe you just don’t play protoss.
Zerg air composter:
Normally a common counter to mass sairs is a guardian/devourer strike on your main, sairs will fail against devourers badly, unless you have god micro, which I sure don’t. So use an arbiter to stasis devourers, then sairs can kill guards, lone devourers are 0 threat to you, if you get goons under them, then you really should. To those who say you won’t have arbs, I say devourers ARE VERY high-tech for zerg as well.
Final Bonus strat: Try using corsairs d web and storm to do a cannon push against a well defended zerg or toss base. D web is great for negating enemy cannons. Cannons take 40 seconds to build, so 2 webs with some zealot distraction after and you’re going to start pushing them in.
I hope you enjoyed this, and I think that I’ve given you all of my special strategies now. Gl Executors.
Edit:Added new strat
|
Out of 16 voters, most think this strategy is Below Average!
|
Other Submissions:
|
| 1, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
I... am speechless. Makes me wonder who accepted this lolz. Oh well, atleast there was made effort to it. |
||||||
| 2, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
its the originality factor too that you gotta consider here. added a new comsat strat. |
||||||
| 3, broodbuddy | |||||||
|
It was very original of you to put your name on everything  Kirby's friend agrees. |
||||||
| 4, masterofhobbiton | |||||||
|
LOL! Take every common protoss strat out there, add kirby's name in the front and bam! A strat! EXP! | ||||||
| 5, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
WORDS TO KIRBY: DONT COME BACK OVER HERE OR ANYWHERE TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT YOUR STRATEGIES ARE BEFORE YOU HAVE READ ALL I HAVE SAID AND YOU CAN PROVE MINE WRONG (which you cant Okay here goes, please bear with me lol, since you are deaf to any negative feedback, lets put it the nice way, I'll tell you EXACTLY how flawed all your strategies are. you should listen to me then, yes? Yeah yeah I know, it worked against "noob125" and "hasu999" who both have 20% win percentage, but that doesnt make these useful, these are only funny strats if your opponent is far worse than you. otherwise most of these are worthless. "Mass scouts and mass archives" mass scouts are worthless. They have no way of beating anything. Any terran will comsat your base often, so they will know if you're building them. When he does, he will just start building goliaths (he has enough tanks to rape your ground army since you're making scouts) and missile turrets to his main so you cant attack it when you're attacking him. perhaps 10-12 missile turrets, depending on the amount of scouts. Goliaths rape your pathetic little scouts who only do 8 damage to ground and fire as often as goliaths do. since you have a small army (scouts) tanks will finish them off and you're dead. boom. wow. As for mass archives, you dont need it. At ANY situation. When you first build your templar archives, its early game or mid game, and when you do, you only need high templars, archons, or dark templars. And storm. Basically, even if your oppponent is zerg,terran or protoss, storm will be worth much more in any situation than hallucination. That makes hallucination useless atleast untill late game, and therefore you still only need one templar archives as you'll be able to finish the upgrade before you need hallucination. As for dark archons, same deal. You only need them late game in 99% of the cases, and by then you'll have all the upgrades you need anyway. Now lets suppose you actually suddenly realize HEY I NEED DARK ARCHONS FAST NOOO! DO I NOW NEED MORE ARCHIVES?! Answer is: No. Why? First off, maelstorm researches quite fast. second, it takes time to build those dark templars, it takes time for them to get enough energy to reach "200/200". Before a single dark archon is 200/200 you'll already have an energy upgrade ready or whatever. Simply said, those two 'main strategies' have just been proven useless. "Kirby’s reaver drop A standard reaver drop except you use two reavers and you utitlize the click and drop reaver buttons to drop the reavers evenly spaced in their probes in order to prevent their escape. If they’ve taken their natural, you can drop one in their main and one in their natural." -Using two reavers and all is fine. But you only list the best case scenario. Do you seriously think that he will do nothing when its easily predictable that you're teching? no, they will keep atleast 2 dragoons at their main, which also reduces your shuttles movement possibilities considerably. Dropping it to block escape path is basically impossible since by then they would have moved their army to that position. Perhaps you are able to take 8 probes out or so (realistic) but by doing so you wasted a shuttle and two reavers. At first thought dropping one to main and one to natural sounds fabulous, however, do you realize that you would need TWO shuttles for this to be effective. What do you excpect? To run through his main, drop one then keep running through his main to his natural and drop another there? Are you stupid? I already explained why dropping it to good position in main is not possible, and even if they have a natural, they WILL have several dragoons at the choke, which only takes few seconds to move to correct positions. If you're running it through the main, they will shoot down the shuttle before you can land second reaver, and your first one is dead too (we can suppose it took out 6-9 probes. Still not worth it). "Kirby's carrier remover" "Upon scouting the massing carriers, usually signified by large amounts of stargates with a fleet beacon. At this time you should being massing archons, have 3 stargates and get 3 arbs." -Usually when you scout the carrier tech, which already will be hard in pvp late game, they will most likely already have 3 or more carriers ready. Being able to mass all of that and arbiter tech is hard, if not impossible, in time. "When the carriers attack, one casts 2 stasis to cover all the carriers, another stasises their arbs if any, and the third will recall ur awaiting archon group directly under their carriers, after recall wears off their carriers will die" -You're now supposing all of your arbiters have maximum energy, maximum upgrades, and that you had enough gas, not only for arbiters, but for like 20 archons too. Not only that, but you also suppose that you are the "fastest in the west" and that you will be able to succeed EXACTLY as you wish. I already explained why it might not work, but lets tell some more reasons. First off, only an idiot would actually keep the carriers at open space when its clear that your enemy knows what you're doing. No, they will keep it near/above cliffs and all, so its impossible to near impossible recalling 20+ archons below his carriers. Besides, you're supposing that you have a much bigger economy than he does, do you realize how much more gas your strategy needs? And seriously, only noobs actually DO carrier rushes, because they're so vulnerable, they suck, and all that shit which I dont bother mentioning. No, they have a decent ground force too, and if they have a good economy they MIGHT begin making carriers in SECRET. seriously, even if you do happen to stasis all of his carriers, his ground force will be there to hold off your units. Sure, they might die to all those arbiters and archons, but they will take atleast half of them off and damage rest. and at that point, no matter how well placed your archons are, the carriers will be able to escape and also shoot all of your arbiters while escaping. Stasis again? well it will delay the escape, but nothing more. "Now, you may say, well what if their arb stasises you now? No problem, just keep about 4 archons under their arb to kill it off instantly, or just leave archons under his carriers, so if he does stasis you he’s not really accomplishing anything." -... And after stasising, it will keep attack moving your archons? I doubt it. It will escape you idiot. And the carriers will wipe you off at ease. Archons under carriers? when carriers are not stasised? uh? when did they get there? And even if he cant stasis all your arbs, he for sure can stasis some archons, which again weaken YOUR army enough for his ground army to wipe most of it off. when stasis wears off, its over. "Kirby’s drop enhancer Basically you hallucinate your shuttles to allow them access to heavily defended areas." -The concept is good but overall you wasted alot of energy. you are now supposing that you have like, 8 ++ high templars with 150 ++ energy, which, by the way, will not happen so often. So, first 4 ht's hallucinate your shuttles. Ok, that made them useless. now you have 4 more, to do what? storm drop? I doubt it, you said its heavily defended. Tanks will rape them. To zealot bomb? possibly, but if you hadn't used all that energy to hallucinations you would cause much more damage. Even if there are missile turrets on terran push, the shuttles will in most cases be able to drop all of its contents to decent positions, and if you used your storms effectively, you'll do much more damage. "Kirby’s friend Basically this is just using dark archons to negate/destroy enemy arbs, if using your own is not feasible in the time you have before carrier/arb army comes." -in a way nice idea and it might prove succesful, but no. they never have enough energy to be able to die from one feedback, therefore, no. The arbiter is still very useful even if it only has the cloaking ability. Besides, once they realize you have a dark archon, they will be keeping it safe when possible. ...Your own carrier/arb army comes... what? where? when did you get those? do you suppose he'd just mass units in main while you gather an 'unbeatable army' ? no, he will be pressuring you and if you suddenly have all that shit, he will most likely too. "Kirby’s ledge steal(Lost Temple) Essentially you shuttle a probe to your opponent’s ledge and build cannons, the twist here being that you deliver hts to the ledge around the same time, securing access to it and allowing them to reinforce your real army when you attack them. You also deny them that expo permanently." -You have a shuttle, and you have high templars, and psionic storm. Especially since its pvp, fast/quite fast shuttles are common. He will drop zealots/dragoons before a single one of your cannons finnish, and your high templars can do nothing about them. In theory, if you're LUCKY, it might work, however, you just spend 2k resources on a fricking cliff, and he will just take another expo. sure, its a bit harder to defend, but you have an army worth 2k more eh? "Kirby’s ramp block: Stasising 1-2 dragoon or archon-lot to block your ramp is nothing new, but its worth mentioning. ALSO WORKS vs. zerg and terran." Eh, works vs T, but not so often against z. They will have overlord drop by the time, and they can transfer masses of units fast. besides, they WILL have tons of overlords all around the map, which will detect your arbiter before it can stasis the ramp. Eh? corsairs to hunt them down if he does that? sure baby, a spire and a few scourges now and then make your corsairs useless. especially since it takes over 1 minute to kill an overlord cuz they have speed. And because you dont keep them at idiotic positions, dragoons etc cant damage em much either. "Kirby’s dt surprise" "Basically early on you sneak a probe out to some hidden place on the map and build pylon citadel, 2 gates, then archives and robo there" -Okay, and now he will know nothing? their first scout scv will realize that something is indeed wrong. You spend a shitload of money on building all of that crap to that place, especially the 2 gates. He will instantly realize you are hiding something and take a couple of scvs to scout all strategical positions. Wow, it was already amde useless, but thats not all. "the mindset here being that if you can take out their comsat you can stop any counterattack they may launch with their forces at your base by sending more dts to help out." -they also have several missile turrets, and since they WILL realize something is wrong (unless they're much worse than you) the dark templars will die, and they will die fast. probably faster than you can take their comsat, but do you realize that even if you manage to take the comsat, they still have turrets, vulture mines. And it certainly wont take long at all, therefore you will only delay him for a short time. Sure, if you're very lucky you MIGHT take him off guard or with a nil chance even beat him, but like I said, the chances are too small to even consider this as a proper strategy. "Carrier/Sair/Ob Assuming each of these units has their respective techs, this is a combo that’s near impossible for terran to stop with any of their standard anti-air units. It will catch them off guard and with d web’s help they will die fast and hard. Mass sairs will fry any wraiths that go hunting for your 12 +obs. The carriers will work on demolition, go for their science facility, without this they cant get their ghosts with lockdown or emp." -Are you a damn moron? Like I explained before, they will have known about the tech long ago since they scan your base. Since this is a late game strategy, even if they dont, they will still have science facility for higher level upgrades. Therefore you will not be able to destroy science facility before he gets science vessels and emp. He will emp your sairs, and easily demolish the rest with goliaths. Well, even if not easily, easily ENOUGH. "Comsat raid: Another way to checkmate a terran is to drop each of their comsats and destroy them, thus allowing to defeat their army. The most common application of this is if you have carriers attacking their bases and they are counterattacking, you should go for their comsats first. Taking out all of a terran player's comsats is an extremely effective strategy to foil nearly any attack they can send. Science veselss if present can just be stasised." -drop each of them? he will have several, do you seriously think you will simply have enough shuttles, or units to even take out all of them? he will have units nearby, vultures can rush to any comsat in matter of seconds, and the rest will probably be near the main or something that will also take out any drops. Besides, they will have missile turrets, so you just lost your shuttles. In my opinion an much much more effective strategy would be to storm all the workers. Destroy all comsats? what? so your carriers are suddenly at four places the same time? seriously though, there are only VERY few cases where terran would counter attack like this. No, they will bring their goliaths to defend their base while carriers only got 1-2. wow. you lost many carriers for that, which was worthless. After that they may counter attack, and rape your army. they dont need vessels, they have mines, missile turrets, and even if you kill the comsats, you cant possibly kill them the same time, they will rebuild them (and they have enough energy for 1 scan anyway) before it becomes hot. Besides, again you talk about 'just stasis them' and 'just kill them with 20 carriers and 5 arbiters' just tell me how is that shit even possible? stasis.. well, emp cast time is just as fast, and since they are counter attacking, and you're also controlling your carriers, there's always as big of a chance that they will emp before you, and you only get 1 vessel cuz they're separated. and since they have masses of tanks and goliaths, even if your strategy works, the goliaths only need to fire once to gain vision over the protoss units once more, and its rape time then. even if you carriers, after most of your base is destroyed manage to defend succesfully, he will again be having alot of new units ready, since unlike you, they will be building while attacking instead of staring on a blank space. "SCV steal" "The mindset being that either he will waste all his army trying to get that scv before it finishes a cc" why would they need to do that? you know, the reason people dont do this is, that it only becomes useful in 1/1000 games. I'm not kidding. It is ONLY useful if both have like over 10k money and 200/200, all expansions taken etc, and even then its not so useful. Lemme explain why.. first off, for all the money you spend on terran units, you cant spend on protoss units. You spend several thousand on something like siege tanks or something, which you cant really use effectively. Of course the sound of "attack with ur army and 10 tanks lolz" sounds pleasing, but it doesnt work like that. The enemy tanks will in siege mode, they will be IN RANGE, they will kill most of them before they even fire a single time and all. Trust me, its pretty much useless. The only situation when this is useful is when the game is in a complete stalemate. Both have huge armies and defenses, and they both know attacking now would bring a great risk of losing the game. THEN it becomes useful. It actually happened in a pro match (kinda) long ago, liquid'Nazgul mind controlled SlayerS_'BoxeR's SCV, and started to make battle cruisers. So he had about 14 of them or something. Well, you know what boxer did? he built like 12 ghosts and locked down every one of them and raped nazgul. As you see, its not so useful. Sure, maybe its better than doing nothing, but adding terran units to the combo of P units SERIOUSLY is not as tasty as how it SOUNDS. I'm a good player, and I've had my share of team melee's. Overall my conclusion is, that you mostly only need the main race. usually massing other races units prove to be of no use overall. I wont even bother to go all the specifics of your strategy on this, as I already made most of it useless. "Dweb/storm Simply, d web enemy army to allow you to lay down storms, very deadly vs.tanks and infantry." -Once again a once in a thousand games type of strategy. First off, dont even talk about infantry in tvp match. just shut the * up about them, because just about no average terran will make infantry in tvp. First off, they will most likely have not only missile turrets, but goliaths too. You also need pretty much godly multitasking to even lay down all the dwebs effectively. Thats why this is not a good strategy. when your sairs come first, they dweb some tanks and turrets, and goliaths just killed most of them and there are still like, 10+ tanks not dwebbed, as they will spread them up ESPECIALLY when they know about sairs. with the help of goliaths, all of his protoss army just got raped as you spent so much money in sairs, he got more units for that money. OH wow. I just noticed that you're talking about dweb/storm, not dweb/units. wow. This is useless, tanks shoot all HT down anyway, and vultures will focusfire on high templars if they use dweb. "Zealot drop 4.0 This is for very large tank pushes, first you run some zealots out to take blows, then you move in two arbs, as one will probably die, and recall a large group of dts/ and zealots over the tanks, halting the push. If you a stasis left, quickly target any nearby tanks." -Yup, keep em 'need only so often' strategies coming. However, this is just about the first one of them all that might be useful in an average late game, especially if terran is careless. "Wraith a cide  Lost Temple)If one of your obs has discovered your enemy massing wraiths in a corner, (you may laugh but wraiths can be very effective at stopping you from expoing since until you get cannons up you won’t have any solid detection.). Shuttle over some das. Select them, and start hitting f to feedback wraiths. This is usually a one hit kill for them and each da can take 5 wraiths. If he/she retardedly fights back, kill more wraiths. After that you probably won’t have to worry about wraiths from him/her." -they will scan and focusfire any obs, and they're cloaked, therefore you will only be able to feedback so many wraiths. And each dark archon will not have 250 energy you idiot T_T when you realize he has starports he probably has 4 wraiths atleast, and when his wraiths attack (lets suppose he has 12 when he comes) you will only have so many dark archons, if you immediately started making those dark archons with all ur money and you have several gateways, you will have maybe 8 dark archons with ONLY one feedback. at most 2. Besides, in my opinion just adding up a few cannons on each expansion is much more effective. they're almost useless against groud (almost as useless as scouts) and 3-4 cannons will stall/take out just about any army of wraiths you can wish for. if you have 1 high templar at the expoes too, they will take out just about any army of wraiths if you're not careless. Therefore, feel free to laugh when you see them "Tank push buster da style: Basically you want to d web the front of their push, and mc tanks. With enough da’s you can prevent the push from getting to you, this also stops the common tactic of using dropships to extend a push up a cliff, as he’ll lose his dropship to mc and perhaps if you’re quick, you’ll get its contents too, and this usually means an scv too." -Ok this is one of the most stupid of them all. Let's face it, you spent 2-3 k++ ore and gas on building all of those sairs and DA's and their tech... Not only that, but well, okay, he will expect the sairs, so he has goliaths. wow. you only cast a few dwebs. Now, you go and mind control tanks. Do you realize that you cant mind control many tanks the exact same second? no? well about time you should. When you mc them, they will shoot them down when they can only fire once or so, so it raped the tanks. dark archons loses all of its shields after casting a mind control, and therefore its VERY highly likely that it will die after it casts the MC. okay, so you got maybe 10 tanks at most down with your pathetic strategy, and you lost um... what? 8 corsairs and 8 dark archons? wow. "Dweb/goon/ob This is a highly deadly combo, which requires a lot of micro but is practically unstoppable by the time its ready. Essentially you assault the terran, with the goons, d webbing any tanks and bunkers he may have, and just walk over him, usually a gg. Obs will help you with pesky mines. DON’T SEND ZEALOTS AS D WEB WILL RENDER THEM USELESS!" -wow. Well, this too will only work once in a thousand games. Eriador did it the first time in an official match. seriously, he was just damn lucky that his opponent didnt expect the sairs, usually they would cuz of scan. And if they do, its already over. They dont need many goliaths at all to take all sairs down with missile turrets. Dweb the goliaths? move them from below it lol T_T, and since all of his tanks will be spread out, even if you dweb 6-8, they will have probably 8 more, which is more than enough to take down your army of goons with help of vultures/goliaths. And you just lost shitload of corsairs too. He will ofc have all those tanks because you have so many corsairs. "Dt spread: -Place one dt at every expo to watch and/or kill terran expo attempts, works for a short time only." Well. That's basically wasting money. A dark templar patrolling in between several expoes is more than enough. Still, the idea overall is good. Too bad most already knew this T_T "Vult masher: Many terrans like to spread mines all over their base to stop recalls and drops, this is not a problem, simply use archons in your recall to be immune to mines, you won’t need obs, d web is optional but helpful. Also the vults wont fare well against your archons either, especially since your going to take out all his turrets, and a comsat, and vulture micro wont be enough to stop temporarily uncloaked archons due to any remaining comsats he decides to waste. Archons are moderately effective vs.tanks, not great but not bad either. If you have a stasis left, this can help even odds vs.tanks, and/or allow you to use that ramp block technique by putting 2 archons on ramp and stasising them. Once that happens, w/e base you’re in is done for." -um no, they only spread out mines if they expect reavers/dt drops, or arbiter recall, which is not hard to expect. And who the * would only have one comsat at that point? they will have atleast 3. And vultures deal 100% damage to archons at all times, and there are tanks just below the cliff/main to attack too, so its a piece of cake. Archons also take huge lot of gas, so after that attack is over, you've already won as he will only have zealots and a few goons besides that. plus you will most likely lose your arbiter, even if the recall was succesful cuz most terrans will build several missile turrets. "Kirby’s overlord rapers: Normally when a zerg sees that you have corsairs, he’s going to assume you’re going dt/sair and hes going to put hydras and spores under his overlords, and in his mind he’s now invincible to your corsairs." -...no. DT sair only comes at late game. He will expect a dt SNEAK inside your main that has no overlords cuz sairs killed them, nothing else. this is very easy to predict and very easy to block too. block his path, and there is spore and sunk and a few overlords close by, so its easy to kill any dt's. even if 1-2 sneaked past, and spreaded up overlord will be at the main fast to give detection for it. And yes, its slightly spread up cuz even if sair attacks it, it will most likely still be able to reach spore colonys cover in time. Meanwhile he's of course making overlord speed and possibly spire too if you keep making corsairs, so that is almost useless. He wont panic, really. "Kirby’s drop buster: NOTE THIS REQUIRES HEAVY SCOUTING BUT ITS AN INSTANT GG EVERY TIME! This requires you to have recon all over the map, and about 3 da’s and 4 hts at all your bases. Basically if a mass of loaded ovs flies into your base, you mael and storm all of them, causing the zerg tremendous losses of both army and overlords, almost always costing him the game. Just for reference sake, lets say its 20 overlords, loaded with ultras and lings? Doesn’t require much micro to do this either, as ovs drop slow and often hell stand still as he does this, regardless, overlords are easy targets for mael then storm." -There is no such thing as gg every time in starcraft. if there was, starcraft wouldnt even exist anymore. And by the way, "Oh yeah, what if he gets 20 battlecruisers but then I made 50 wraiths and he didnt have scan LOL" This is EXACTLY what you're saying. Who would be so damn stupid to actually use 200/200 overlords loaded full to take one expansion? nah, its only 8 overlords max usually. And since they are a bit spread up, you need shitload of storms and maels IN TIME to perform well. And if you mind control, you cant mael, and results are even worse. Seriously, this might be useful and nice if its a stalemate situation where P is mining an full expo and zerg has none (happened to me once) and its important to take out the expo at all costs. Well, what you do is NOT mass da/ht, you make DA and a few ht AND sairs, sairs always deal more damage than your ht. ofc HT is a plus, but its not the main thing. This once again proves you've only played against morons. "Kirby’s well what if I don’t have storm: Well you may or may not know this, but maelstrom removes overlords ability to detect, allowing your dts which you should have at least 8 there to rape the drop and slow it down. Mc some ovs if you can." -You seriously dont even realize that that by the time they have dropped and you have maelstormed, your dts are already dead. Lets suppose most DT's actually manage to survive, he just wont leave them there, and once mael wears off the dodging stops and they will rape ur dts and ur base. horrible idea. "Kirby’s no ob gambit: A smart zerg may exploit a templar tech with lurkers, assuming then that you don’t have obs and that he can get past your cannons. Well if you mind control an overlord or 2, you can play the rest of the game without ever getting obs, saving yourself tons of money and letting you focus more on your army. You may also get speed ovs with drop if you’re lucky. However, reavers are always useful for many situations involving zerg ground attacks, and if later on you have a strong eco, I see no reason not to get reavers to break the common sunk/lurk/spore defense." -Saving tons of money? where? First off, not only do you get obs, but you also get shuttles which DO GET USEFUL in the game. The obs are INVISIBLE, which is useful for scouting. He also might not even know that you're spying his army. The obs is also VERY cheap and fast to make, even observatory is basically free. It's also funny how you talk about "saving money" when you've till now only talked about shit which requires 10000 both ore and gas and even that is not enough, and wasting money on scouts/mass archives etc. However many overlords you may get, there will be mostly a time when you simply do not have enough of them, or they are not in the right place. thats right, you cant make and obs, and you cant make shuttles either for harassment. No storm drops, no dt drops to main, no nothing. "Dt/arb A more advanced version of dt/sair, that also counters drops and the hydra/ov combo. Essentially you stasis all his ovs, which will usually be clumped, again allowing your dts to wreak havoc on his army. Also can turn dts into ramp blockers. VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU KEEP DTS OFF TO SIDE BEFORE YOU DO THIS!!!! Hydras, and ultras chew through dts very fast, and lings if they have all ups. Also his army will have to abandon the overlords, kill these after stasis wears off. Mind also to add da’s to each base as he’ll need defilers or queens to stops this. Or an obscene amount of overlords, but if that’s the case he/she is forsaking detection elsewhere and that’s a risk that most would not be willing to take. Remember, u need a lot of dts to stop a large zerg army from still causing damage to your base. Zergs can do a lot of damage fast with ultra/ling." -uhh.. once again, I am speechless. Arbiter to give cloak for dt's that already have it? alriiiightt.... And seriously, they have damn overlord speed, and you only have so many arbiters cuz this is a very gas heavy build. Any average zerg, like I already said, will keep alot of overlords around the map. Already the fact that you can stasis all his overlords that he keeps near the units has a low chance of happening, but he can bring new ones in seconds, and he can run around with his army for that time. After that its rape. Besides, you are not even realizing how damn easy it is to pick off the arbiters with only a few scourges? your noob opponents probably never even thought about it. And again, plague or ensnare will reveal all the dt's too, even IF (which is not possible, but lets say IF) all else fails. Dark archons you say? I doubt it's that easy with all that. its impossible to predict when a defiler suddenly comes in and throws plague, sure, feedback after that, but the damage is already done. "Psionic lead: This is simple, if you fnd a large hydra/ling army sitting outside his base or your’s, just run a zealot at them to keep hydras in place, then storm them all. This will make him/her mass elsewhere but if he persists, he/she will die." -Soo. He's supposed to sit there and watch his units die. Nah. You're talking how you're everywhere at same time and how these strategies need being everywhere so lets do it here too. Me, I usually dont lose a single hydralisk to a storm unless its badly wounded, since I'll just move it out of the storm before the storm does any real damage. You wasted a storm, zealot, and much else. sure, this is effective against zerg, but it definately is not enough alone. You cant drive zerg off that easily. "“Lurk push buster” This is an often comical way to stop a lurk push. Simply put you do have an ob but you don’t want zerg to know it, you mc a lurk and watch as he is either greatly confused, moves his lurks out, or dies. Note that he may send ovs to reinforce them, even one sair can stop that." -you dont want z to know it.. but he already knows the very instant the lurk starts attacking its allies. And seriously, there is simply not a single zerg out there who does NOT keep overlords near a lurk push/block. Therefore, this just became worthless. However, if you really think there isnt an overlord, and we suppose so, why not send dark templars instead? they deal damage much faster than a lurk or two, and they're cheaper too, plus it doesnt take 5+ minutes to make dark archons that have 150 energy. "“The GGER” Basically if you’re going for a large recall, try about 20 reavers fully loaded with about 20 sairs with d web and 10 obs, large and expensive yes but assured to destroy any zerb base with basically 0 casualties, and destroy it fast. You can go from base to with this and rape him, u could keep an arb at your bases to bring it home to defend if you must, it will serve you just as well." -Learn how SC works before posting strategies. One recall only can bring around 20 units along, therefore a single recall here or there is simply not possible. and when do you think you were actually able to gather such an massive army? No where is the answer. Lemme explain. He WILL know what you're doing. any zerg would be suspicious, and he would suicide overlords, perhaps from many directions at the same time and easily know what its about. He will have a defiler at every expansion, which will plague everything, making your army die 2x faster, plus it makes cloaking useless. once he spots arbs, he will also have sunkens and spore colonys at his bases. One base doesnt cost almost anything to the zerg, so it doesnt matter if he loses one. when you recall, they will first plague your units. You cant dweb everything nice and fast, since it wasnt your sairs attacking, they just suddenly appeared there, which will result to the death of several reavers. Also, you are talking about recall, and you have talked about recall for so long time in your strategies. if you depend on it so much, its easy for zerg to just... take a few scourges along and kill all arbiters before a recall is even possible. or if you bring corsairs along, you keep hydras around and flank his arbiter and remove any escape routes he might have. Also, you can make devourers. Like you yourself admitted, they rape sairs, and they rape arbiters too. spread em up a bit before attacking so even if after spending 300+ energy to recalls(-_-), he wont do much damage with stasis. Besides, you will even slow corsair attack rate close to zero and make cloaking again useless. raped. "“OTHER GGER” This ones a lot simpler to do, just recall about 8 and 30 fully archons into their base, also a resounding gg for any base, and then they lose." -yeah. Please tell me where you got the gas for all those. 30x300=9000 gas, and not counting all upgrades, tech, arbiters, etc etc etc. And again, scourges rape ur arbiters before they get a chance to recall. And once again, hydras will rape all of your damn archons. High templars cant do anything. Zerg can just throw a dark swarm and kill archons with ultras. archons only do about 5 damage under dark swarm you know. storm wont damage them much. And why would they lose cuz they lose one base anyway? "Sair/reaver: WARNING REQUIRES HIGH APM THIS IS A GG IF YOU’RE A NOOB! Use about 4 sairs with web to allow a 2 reaver drop to destroy the zerg’s expoes by negating hydras and lings by webbing just in front of reaavers. Note if you blow this, you will lose. For a drop you do this to sunkens and spores too, just don’t waste your webs is all that I can say." -4 sairs dont regenerate energy and dont have enough dwebs to give proper protection for the reavers. Besides, even if you use dweb, they can just move their hydras from under them. some casualities, yes, but you lost more overall. Besides, if its that small of an army, the only thing he needs is scourges. heck, only thing he needs is mutas. "Maelstrom/psi storm: If you don’t know already know about the power of this combo, you are very bad or maybe you just don’t play protoss." -Yeah, this is one of the first strategies you submitted that actually works. too bad you didnt make this up LOL "Zerg air composter: Normally a common counter to mass sairs is a guardian/devourer strike on your main, sairs will fail against devourers badly, unless you have god micro, which I sure don’t. So use an arbiter to stasis devourers, then sairs can kill guards, lone devourers are 0 threat to you, if you get goons under them, then you really should. To those who say you won’t have arbs, I say devourers ARE VERY high-tech for zerg as well." -why would guardians be the solution? its devourers and hydras/defilers/other units. even if you somehow, by a small chance, manage to stasis most of the devourers (in truth, only about 50% is possible, and thats a lucky shot), there are still enough of them to keep you busy, and like I said, using hydras/defilers instead will rape all remnaining shit you might posses, and plague the sairs ofc. "Final Bonus strat: Try using corsairs d web and storm to do a cannon push against a well defended zerg or toss base. D web is great for negating enemy cannons. Cannons take 40 seconds to build, so 2 webs with some zealot distraction after and you’re going to start pushing them in." -yup yup, and what should they be doing? sitting there only building cannons? nah, they will be busting you cannons from many directions with hydras,lings, ultras, defilers. If you use dweb, it will affect your own cannons too, and he can use distraction too you know. And storm wont do much damage to ultras which hog all the damage anyway. |
||||||
| 6, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
ahzz not cool i specifcallly denounced mass archives and mass scouts in the first fucking paragraph. ur fueling the lies by saying thats what I do. last ones is for vs.toss and don't cut off parts of my strategy to make it look like I forgot something. |
||||||
| 7, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
well okay, sorry about the 'mass scouts and archives' then. But read the rest of it, dont judge it for only a few lines. And you know kirby, I only cut parts when I QUOTED something. I answered the thing I quoted VERY throughly, and after that I check out if I forgot to mention anything that you said from the original text. Why I quoted to begin with was, to make it easier for people to understand, and you too, so they dont have to return back and fourth all the time. I sometimes cut stuff out cuz I already answered it (I planned on answering on more stuff, but then I found no good reason for it) |
||||||
| 8, Protogod (Senior Moderator) | |||||||
|
Ahzz is the #1 strategist here, don't argue that you know better than him about this much stuff. :/ | ||||||
| 9, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
well ill refute one part at a time then, first ahzz for the sair/reaver thing, go watch the fisheye montage on youtube. and u fabricated the whole using arbs to cloak dts bs. |
||||||
| 10, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
for the sair reaver, I never said it wouldnt work once in early game, did I? Nope. It will probably work once, at most twice when you first get your 2 reavers. You may be able to pick off an expansion and a few drones, but after that you need bigger armies if you dont want to lose em every time. you make it sound as if you should keep repeating the same process. And no, I didnt make up the using arbiters/dt's Once you've played 4000+ games competitively like me, you'll understand what I mean and where I got my knowledge. Any even average player would know that the combo simply cannot work, and I already explained why. |
||||||
| 11, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
well I dont buy it, its usually quite easy to get all the overlords with two stasises, and its very easy to cut off the reinforcements with corsairs, and could you be implying that I haven't played over 4000 games? | ||||||
| 12, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
as a matter of fact, yes I am. Or if you have played 4000 games, you're one of the worst players I know to have played so many. Yes, sure, its easy to get overlords with two stasises, as long as he's worse than you that is. Do you realize that all I need against the computer is queens and drones? It's because im much better. Besides, even IF all overlords were stasised, so what? rest of his units will retreat instead of just dying, and after overlords come out of their freeze, they can spot your DT's again and only thing you managed to do is delay it with 30 seconds, and seriously, after you've stasised him once, he'll bring more overlords elsewhere, and as I said, if he's average he'll keep overlords around the map, it will be easy for him to bring new overlords in 10 seconds at most, and this time he wont keep them in such a clump, even if he did the first time. Your strategies are flawed. the sooner you realize this, the sooner will you start improving. You are only able to beat people when you actually follow a decent build order or they're worse than you, which has been the case in making these strategies. Do you realize that if you actually are able to get those armies which you are talking about, for example 200/200 of reaver/sair/arbs, its already been over for a long time, and you could end it faster and better another way. If zerg doesnt have an army that basically is worth exactly the same amount or even better, already killed you, he's a bad player. And cut what reinforcements with corsairs? in reaver sair strategy? do you realize that what zerg player will be using is not overlords to drop units, but hydralisks and scourges (and perhaps mutalisks since you got so few sairs) and you can do little about cutting reinforcements with sairs. Oh and by the way, I just submitted a replay where I fight reaver sair against someone who is way better than you. Once it gets approved (it most likely will be accepted) you can see how it should be done somehow, and how several of your strategies have flaws. When it comes, see how I'm not using devourers and guardians, but mainly hydras, scourges, and devourers. Guardians only cuz I couldnt get defilers fast enough and he had reavers behind cannon lines. |
||||||
| 13, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
it only fails if its done improperly. LOL AHZZ THEORYCRAFT AGAIN, overlords all over the map? ummm no. what zergs are you playing I don't know. Is that how you would counter a fast sair build ahzz? make them easy pickings? |
||||||
| 14, broodbuddy | |||||||
|
Settle it in a 1v1! |
||||||
| 15, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
i could try. | ||||||
| 16, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
oh and 4000+ u gotta count ums. | ||||||
| 17, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
no, I didnt count ums. Like 2 years ago, I had almost 3000 games in STATS in only ONE ACCOUNT, check /stats gigant.dwmt @europe. And From then I've played more games. much more. And what do you mean I'm theorycrafting? its you who is theorycrafting noob. And yes, overlords are all around the map, but they are not all around the map in early game. in early game they're all around the bases you have. in late game, which you're talking of with your arbiters and dark templars, I have overlord speed and pretty much whatever tech I need to kill you. You're talking about sair rush, sure you dont keep overlords all around the map then, but what about when overlords have speed and I have hydras and stuff? I think so. you're only shit talking. Who talked anything about rush, damn, your strategy itself only is able to come mid-late game earliest, and by then there wont be any rush.. And yeah kirby, lets play. What times are you on? My account on us.east is gNs.I-Ahzz I'm on from mon-thu maybe... 8:30 AM - 2:30 PM EST and friday : 8:30 AM - 8 PM EST and saturday: 3 AM - 8 PM EST (pretty much any time is fine) I'll rape you ten times without even chance of losing a single time, trust me. You cant do anything with those strategies. |
||||||
| 18, broodbuddy | |||||||
|
Post the replay afterwards!! | ||||||
| 19, broodbuddy | |||||||
|
By the way Ahzz.... if you'replaying SC pretty much 12 hours a day, isn't it kinda hard to like.... go to work or school? | ||||||
| 20, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
brood remember hes in finland his times are different. | ||||||
| 21, broodbuddy | |||||||
|
8:30 AM - 8 PM doesn't equal 7.5 hours in Finland? | ||||||
| 22, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
ahzz I've thought about it and, Im not playing you now. Wait till december 17-january 26 or something like that when I'll be off and will able to practice alot (hopefull). As it Im getting like 8 hours a week of it, barely enough to compete with you. So your going to have to wait, I did think about this and I feel that its fair. | ||||||
| 23, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
haha shut up kirby. And the times I posted are not times I play, they're times I can be on if it works for you. I definately dont play SC 12 hours a day, and I definately atm don't play even 8 hours a week, so shut up and play me. I'm supposed to wait 2+++ months just because of a lame ass shit like that? if you can just make a few practise games, you'll be almost as close to your best as possible, and it's not like I'm at my best either, so stop making excuses and play me. | ||||||
| 24, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
i asked salv and he said it was best if I didn't. | ||||||
| 25, MatGeo | |||||||
|
"Post the replay afterwards!!" U don't need reps to see who wins.  Kirby, it doesn't matter when u play ahzz. He'll own you, anywhere at any time |
||||||
| 26, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
do you know why salv said you shouldnt? because it's obvious to him that you'd get your ass raped, you'd only humilate yourself. But, enough of that. You can't prove my logic wrong, but I can prove yours. Also, remember that SC is a ten-year-old that still has a large fanbase and still has more money in progaming than any other game. If you seriously think these were good, why aren't the progamers using them? | ||||||
| 27, lyye | |||||||
|
Long piece of crap(Strategy). Lol Ahzz ownz, that must be the longest comment ever. kirby played more than 4000 games? Woah, your IQ is below 80 perhaps? |
||||||
| 28, MatGeo | |||||||
|
"and still has more money in progaming than any other game" "and still has more money in progaming than MOST other games" Sry ahzz but sc isn't the game which makes he most money |
||||||
| 29, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
mat +5 karma for you on swbk.net coming direct, well nvm since u dropped your karma like a rock. | ||||||
| 30, MatGeo | |||||||
|
ooa Having -10k karma is fun =D | ||||||
| 31, Starcraftkid | |||||||
|
new member-WOW this really suck.U act like u didnt even consider the energy limits and all that money )= | ||||||
| 32, silvera123 | |||||||
|
ouch | ||||||
| 33, darthmooman | |||||||
|
ooh, dayum dis shit be ON bitchz | ||||||
| 34, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
new member? umm no. look in the old strats for kirby's reaver strat and tell me that again. | ||||||
| 35, Taxidermy | |||||||
|
Its obvious kirby's favorite map is "Fastest Possible Map" | ||||||
| 36, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
wrong | ||||||
| 37, jello12 | |||||||
|
I would insult ahz but hes a oderator. Don't team up on poor kirby like that! makes me sad T_T | ||||||
| 38, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
Team up? I never asked for any team up. Other's only agreed with me... isn't that correct? And you know, I wouldn't over react, and not so many people would respond, but kirby is simply famous for his idiotic strategies and stubborness, not to mention arrogance, that no other method would be even thinkable. Trust me, people have tried to teach him for god knows how long, but he never listens to anyone except himself. Now if it was you, jello12, we hardly would have reacted as we did. We don't know you, and you dont have a reputation of a stubborn guy who wont listen to common sense |
||||||
| 39, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
ahzz i still read the comments here, don't try to sneak one by me. | ||||||
| 40, neobowman | |||||||
|
I highly doubt that hewas trying to sneak one in or anything. Being stubborn and refusing undeniable proof won't get you anywhere. Learn from your mistakes and correct them. I do not like people getting upset about these matters but it seems I have no choice but to criticize you. Don't try to argue against these things. Accept them and you will do better. | ||||||
| 41, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
i didnt make any mistakes neobowman. These work. | ||||||
| 42, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
see guys? espcially you jello12. See what I mean by him being stubborn? I gave him an complete explanation for EVERYTHING he said in this strategy and massacred pretty much every one of them. Yet he acts like that, which was my point. And no kirby, I didnt try to sneak a single one behind your back. I knew it completely you'd still read the comments here. It's just time you'd actually realize what other people think of you and that you're damn stubborn and arrogant. You ask me advice, you say that I'm good and I rape you every time I ask a game from you. And still you're stubborn and say that I'm wrong or that you don't believe me? doesn't make sense. |
||||||
| 43, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
in good time ahzz,in good time. | ||||||
| 44, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
as long as you use the strategies you talk here and be stubborn, you wont beat me. If you change them and listen to people, you might have a chance. | ||||||
| 45, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
as it is now, I can't defeat 3 hatch hydra, and since that is your classic strat, I have no chance. | ||||||
| 46, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
i can defeat you with any strat, excluding queens and drones | ||||||
| 47, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
lol lol right..... |
||||||
| 48, SilverCrusader | |||||||
|
He could... he'll just out macro/micro you. | ||||||
| 49, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
let's try it out? if I win you'll stop using and talking about these strats. deal? If you think it's not possible, why not give it a shot? | ||||||
| 50, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
i haven't even beat nw.lost, but its ur choice. | ||||||
| 51, Balance | |||||||
|
Ah, heated debate. Kirby - I'm sorry, but if you've played against really good opponents with like 150+ apm, you'd know that those strategies don't work. Why not accept it? If you really have so much faith in them, I'd have expected you to challenge Ahzz right after his superlong reply. (Good luck getting all that vespene and dodging scourge -- you'll need it.) Ahzz - If you've played 4000+ games, you own the discussion, Ahzz. Really good and sensical SUPERLONGREPLY up there. I agree entirely with Ahzz's counterarguments, and I don't believe a bit about having to prepare for a match. I think kirbythegod basically accepted defeat and called his own strats useless when he said that he can't beat your classic strat. And then again, when he said he hasn't even beaten nw.lost. Why post strategies if you can't "even" beat some game? Oh, and please post the replay of your match. --Balance: only the impartial may adjudicate |
||||||
| 52, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
"really good opponents with like 150+ apm" good point but apm has nothing to do with skill! |
||||||
| 53, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
no, but I will post a replay of lammas eating ahzz for breakfast  k go to battlereports.com replay id:32663 |
||||||
| 54, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
ahah D go ahead post a crappy replay of me vs lammy or whatever you want. And I wouldn't really say "eating ahzz for breakfeast" lol. well, in any case, I have just as many replays of beating lammy as he has of beating me (estimation) so its kinda useless to post a single game. and whatever do you think to achieve with that? make me look worse? cuz you aren't. |
||||||
| 55, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
ha ha ha ha, no, but its still fun to watch. Lammas is kinda like a gm terran version of ahzz |
||||||
| 56, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
and you're the BM version of the shittiest sc gamer ever? | ||||||
| 57, kirbythegod | |||||||
|
nope | ||||||
| 58, lammas (Section Moderator) | |||||||
|
lol kirby why do you post rep like that? I have 20+ reps in my autorep folder where Iam eaten alive by giga and other 20 where I slaughter him and despite of these reps your strat is still quite bad, which ahzz nicely tried to tell you. btw Iam quite bm tt |
||||||
| 59, Ahzz (Section Moderator) | ||
| ||