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How to choose the best starting for TvT
Author: lyye
For money maps: Yes
Difficulty: Easy
Comments: 14 (Watch for comments!, Add to favorites)
Views: 5468

Alright...So...Like the title said, this strategy will include some useful build orders for TvT ..

Well..Here goes!

For maps like luna, TvT often players will go 2 factory vultures+speed/mines, which they will place mines outside your base so that you cannot expand and will be contained in your base for some time,so, choosing the right build order will be very important..

Here I'll list builds that arn't good against this:

1)2 Factory tank/goliath
Why: No detector, so you'll most likely to be contained in your base while your opponent expands, you will waste alot of money on those expensive units, which you will be limited in $$ and you will have to expand after your opponent does it so that means you will fall behind in econemy and die. Even if you get to expand at the same time as your opponent does it, you will be having less units compared to your opponent, which isnt a very good thing, he can just have vultures rush in your base while avoiding everyone and go straight for workers, well...In maps that have large ramps like luna.

2)1 Factory tank->Starport->Drop
Why: Go drop your opponent and watch 8 speedy vultures rush in your base and rape your workers.

3)Wraith rush
Why: Go kill their workers with your wraiths, and vultures will pop in your base and kill all of your SCVs, retreating will be too late and keep on killing your opponents worker wouldn't be a good idea aswell because he will be having more vultures than your wraiths and they kill workers faster.

Good counter for this build:

1)Early expo+Bunker->Rax and Ebay as obstacle->Tank gol drop
How to do this: Do the usual TvT build order and make 4 marines after barracks its done for 1)Counter 2rax marine rushs 2)Fast expand without being vulture rushed. Make 1 factory and while its still under constructing, build a bunker at your expo and fly your rax to where your bunker is, and land at the entrance to block the way, build and ebay there later and stuff the choke with tanks, expand when you feel you've givin your enemy enough pressure(Drops...)

2)3 Factory vultures->Expand
How to do this: 3 Factory pump vultures witt no addons-->Expand when you fight off your opponents first vulture rush and you should have addon now, counter.If your opponent doesn't attack you then scout your opponents base and decide if you should attack or not.
Why:3 Factory vultures without upgrades can easily outnumber 2 factory vultures with mine and speed, since mines won't blow up vultures which means they wasted some money on researhing mines, which will be better if they added another factory instead. But its too late =P

For 2 factory tank gol drops:
Things NOT to do:

If its a map with small ramp like lost temple, DON'T go for vultures, it'll be kind of hard for them to get up the ramp since there will be tanks and goliaths blocking your way.

Don't go wraith rushing your opponent, since wraith ain't gonna do much of a thing to siegh tanks while goliaths are around. And they will be having either a comsat station or some turrets..

Best build for this:

1)2 Factory tanks:
Why: Tanks>Goliaths, and you will have more tanks than your opponent, so that means his goliaths are pretty much useless.

2)Do the same as your opponent, and try to take out his expansion while you expand yourself ASAP.

3)2Rax marine rush:
I've posted a replay about that strategy. Basically its: 2 Rax near your opponents base and pump marines until around for then take some SCVs with you to your opponents base, build bunker and try not to let your marines die. Do this only if you see your opponent with 1 marine and flys his barracks to scout you.

For wraith rush:
Things NOT to do:
1)2 Factory tanks:
Why:This is kind of obvious huh?

2)When your far from your opponent, don't drop ...You wouldn't want your dropships to get killed by wraiths on its way ..You can do this in late games though your opponent should've switched to tanks+goliaths by that time.

Best build for this:

1)3Factory vultures:
Why:Vultures massacre SCVs faster than wraiths, and you won't be having tanks when they get into your base.Even if you do have 1 or 2 they are gonna get outnumbered and die.

2)Drop goliaths in his base if you manage to get past his wraiths.

3)2 Rax marine rush works well here aswell. Since he won't be getting any ground units until wraiths come out.

Finally...How to counter 2 Rax marine rush...Personally, I've never managed to hold them off...Its either because that I'm an idiot or my opponents too strong. Whatever..So heres how you counter it:
2 factory vultures, they own marines, and you will be having around 2 of them when your opponent charges in your base with 6 marines and 3 SCVs, 2 vultures will be enough to micro against your opponents marines, focus on your opponents SCV if its building a bunker, if your opponent somehow manages to build a bunker, then click on the 'surrender' button.
4 marines will be good enough aswell and will also let you expand earlier than your opponent, just have SCVs at your choke and 4 marines behind them, since your marines are on high ground and your opponents marines can't get up because of your SCVs, your marines will be givin 70% chance that a ranged attack won't hit them.

So...Thats about all for now, might add more stuff later.


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1, lyye
Date: Sep 29, 2007
Time: 12:55 AM
 
No no this isn't for money maps oops..And if your pro and you knew these already then you don't have to comment.

2, jello12
Date: Sep 29, 2007
Time: 06:23 AM
 
I tried it and got countered


Below Average

3, DashRendaer
Date: Sep 29, 2007
Time: 11:47 AM
 
Just Because it didn't work for you

4, broodbuddy
Date: Sep 29, 2007
Time: 01:33 PM
 
Sort of hard to read... months of reading the other sc.org terran srats has accidentally given me dyslexia. Thank you for putting things in order, never saying "oh wait, and back at 9 supply you should build another SCV" instead of just typing in the changes, and making a strategy that might work. Not great, not horrible,wonderfully above average.

Quick note-If I read this standing on my head, the spelling and layout is a lot more similar to other strats, for other sc.orgers (Note: Not sc.orgiers totally different site for that) that are used to having this induced dyslexia from reading poorly written strats, I recommend the "standing-on-your-effing-head technique"

sc.orgers** that are used to having this...
I'm such a hypocrite...

5, lyye
Date: Oct 02, 2007
Time: 10:01 PM
 
Your tried it and got countered? Looks like I should change this to "Intermediate" ...Don't just watch pro replays and try to mimic thier moves, mimicing something far out of your reach ain't very good for your skillZ. Do more practicing...

Looks like I'm not a good strategy writer, maybe its because my english sucks?

6, broodbuddy
Date: Oct 04, 2007
Time: 12:24 PM
 
English not your mother language?

7, lyye
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Time: 11:38 PM
 
I was born in New zealand(English speeeeeeeking country) But my dad is from Taiwan mom from China ...I speak both Chinese and English but my english and chinese suck because I hate both chinese and english classes. I can write and speak english but got some grammar problems ..I can speak chinese but can't write chinese.

8, broodbuddy
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Time: 03:00 AM
 
w00t! flight of the conchords!

9, Hasu
Date: Oct 16, 2007
Time: 11:18 AM
 
i've been playing terran latley and T vs T is my best mu, and i have to say i completely disagree with some things u said. Do you realize that vs. terarns who mine, if you have minumum of 2 tanks, they will kill all mines before the mines can blow up on u, and if u have vult / gol / wraith backup it will kill faster. so yeah tanks > mines. also wraiths work vs mines cause you have to have SOEM units not just a few wraiths, and vultures suck at fighting.

AVG ~

10, lyye
Date: Oct 16, 2007
Time: 11:34 PM
 
Minimum of 2 tanks eh? They can kill 1 mine that pops up from the ground in 1 hit, but what about 3 or more mines popping up at the same time? Yes vultures suck at fighting but they don't suck as meatshields and they don't suck at killing small stuff like scv.

What do you mean wraiths work vs mines cause I have to have SOEM units not just a few wraiths...Oh, yes right mines won't blow wraiths up, that what you mean?

Want a replay of vulture+tank owning gol+tank/whatever crap you just said?

11, MrCookey
Date: Nov 11, 2007
Time: 03:22 AM
 
yeah uhh what was Rav supposed to be? and speed/mine? i had no idea what you said.

12, lyye
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Time: 07:39 PM
 
Rav? Speed mine? Whats 'Rav'? When did I say that? O_O...Oh its pretty obvious that some of you might not understand..Tank+Vulture= you will have more tanks than your opponent because you save more gas and more minerals, vultures are just kind of a distraction thingy. And no, you don't engage a large force with tanks and vultures but vulture mines will prevent your opponent from having masses of units..

13, Sniper64
Date: Apr 19, 2008
Time: 06:10 AM
 
it is sort of hard to read but i will try i play terran so i am looking up constant strategies so thanks - average P.S What the hell is Rav i still dont know even after Iyyve (guy above me) explained =(

Bye the way you said that mines are good i ALWAYS scan in obvious places for SM cuz my friend is crazy about them he puts like a ton so i just send in like 5 marines and then scan like hell usually out of 3 command centers i just put like 2 scanners and 1 nuke so i recomend not spider mines only when the oponent attacking and always take out science vessel those are pain in *** while protoss so i really think that you need to clean up this because most of time i not understand where the hell you are at like jumping from somewhere to another and upgrading mines cost the same as a factory if my memory is clear i think it cost less than a factory so can somebody clear tha for me

14, lyye
Date: Jun 27, 2008
Time: 01:52 PM
 
Mines will contain you at the beginning so you can't expand while your opponent happily expands. And factory=200M 100G Mines=100M 100G. And two tanks will NOT be enough to counter 3 mines popping up at the same time, don't believe me? I'll own you noobs on hamachi come on ffs I'm sick of APM 50 noobs pointing out WRONG mistakes on my strategies. I'm gonna get these deleted soon anyway so I don't really care. And if you build vultures as a distraction, you will have more money to build MORE tanks than you opponent which is a good thing, or spend some on wraiths to counter drops. Vultures are good for maps like luna not LT though the ramp is kinda small.

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